"...but because you are going to hang me you will get nothing out of me..."

[Moriarty]

This is what Bury is said to have told his namesake executioner on the morning of his death. William Beadle construes this comment as being strongly confessional, arguing that it implies a willingness on his part to admit the Whitechapel murders in exchange for a reprieve.

Any takers? And any views on the Beadle book more generally?

[Crystal]

Hi Moriarty

Well, it could be construed as strongly confessional, but there are obvious issues there, don't you think?

This is what Bury is said to have told his namesake executioner on the morning of his death

Exactly, said to have said. Tantalising as that may be, it's third hand evidence. As for it being confessional, well, so it may seem, yes - but a man facing death may say many things - perhaps Bury was trying for a reprieve? Maybe he did not intend to confess himself, but to implicate another in the hope of some leniency?

I have no particular personal view on this as yet - I forward these suggestions as possibilities.

[Moriarty]

Thanks Crystal.

I must admit I've only quickly perused the Beadle book in Watford Waterstones prior to starting work this morning...might have to pop back later and effect a purchase.

[Moriarty]

Thanks Crystal.

I must admit I've only quickly perused the Beadle book in Watford Waterstones prior to starting work this morning...might have to pop back later and effect a purchase.

[Moriarty]

That point was so good I thought I'd make it twice.

[Stewart P Evans]

James Berry

I think that this was more a case of the executioner, James Berry, wanting to claim the notorious 'scalp' of Jack the Ripper rather than an actuality.

Berry's account was written post-1910 and he drew on the then extant press coverage of the case. He had, it seems, the fixed idea in mind of getting some sort of statement out of Bury when he went to the condemned cell to pinion the man. Berry started his account with, "Picking up my pinioning straps, I walked quickly along, but before I went some one touched my arm and reminded me that I had a certain duty to perform before I brought him out into the corridor - I had to find out if he were 'Jack the Ripper'. When I walked into the cell he looked at me almost defiantly, and then he twisted his face up into a sneer. He was the first to begin the conversation.
'I suppose you think you are clever to hang me?'
Now there isn't much in that question when you see it in cold print, but had you heard it spoken you would have thought as I did at the time.
The man about to die laid particular emphasis on the last word he spoke. He talked as if he thought himself to be one who stood head and shoulders above every other criminal who had passed through my hands.
Meanwhile the detectives had drawn near, and were straining their ears to catch any word which might fall from his lips.
I looked at him and waited.
'I suppose you think you are clever because you are going to hang me,' he repeated. 'But because you are to hang me you are not to get anything out of me.'
And he had already admitted the justice of his doom."

Bury said no more to Berry, and the hangman went on, "A second afterwards the trapdoor fell and he died with whatever secrets he may have had locked in his own breast."

Unfortunately Berry's accounts are all we have and there is no independent evidence of the presence of two Scotland Yard detectives being present at the execution.

Berry's account ended with, "I had got nothing out of him, as he had said - nothing but the unshakeable belief that his words conveyed the suggestion that he had a history which he believed put him above - and far above - the level of the ordinary criminal.
After the execution was over the Scotland Yard men came at once to see me.
'Well, Mr. Berry,' they said, 'will you tell us what opinion you have about him?'
'Did you hear him make that statement?' I asked.
'Oh, yes, but unfortunately you could construe it two or three ways. It is nothing definite to go on. What do you think yourself?'
'I think it is him right enough.'
'And we agree with you,' replied one of the detectives. 'We know all about his movements in the past, and we are quite satisfied that you have hanged "Jack the Ripper". There will be no more Whitechapel crimes.'
And there has not been one since!"

[Moriarty]

Thank you Stewart. Any thoughts on the Beadle book? I know that Bury is not your candidate.

[Stewart P Evans]

Unable

Thank you Stewart. Any thoughts on the Beadle book? I know that Bury is not your candidate.

I am afraid that I don't have the Beadle book so I am unable to comment on it. I do not have a 'candidate'.

[Moriarty]

You must be a different Stewart Evans from the guy I keep seeing promoting the Tumblety candidacy. Apologies.

[Mrsperfect]

Bill Beadle's Bury

Hi Moriarty

It's no secret that I believe Bury was JtR. It's also no secret that Berry embelished his facts when retelling his tales, thereby compromising the truth and his credibilty.

The facts, as I understand them, are that two detectives were sent to Scotland to interview Bury before the death sentence was carried out. That makes me wonder why they would go to that expense, for a suspect deemed hardly worthy of mention, to many ripperologists.

Sure, many suspects were interviewed in London and at little cost, but a trip to Scotland would have to be justified. They must have wondered whether he could have been JtR. Bury's a fine suspect in my opinion and Beadle's book confirmed it. It doesn't hamper Beadle's credentials that he's a smart man (Member of Mensa) and a copper's son. I would recommend it.

Regards

Eileen

[halomanuk]

Are there no notes at all of the detectives with Berry when he went to pinion Bury ?
They must have made notes at the time which is a shame..
He was a frontrunner of mine for some time and what he put his wife through was a shocker.

[Mrsperfect]

Place Getter?

Are there no notes at all of the detectives with Berry when he went to pinion Bury ?
They must have made notes at the time which is a shame..
He was a frontrunner of mine for some time and what he put his wife through was a shocker.

G'day Halomanuk

So he's no longer a frontrunner then..................why not? (and who's No.1?)

Regards

Eileen

[halomanuk]

Hi there,
He is still up there as one of my more likely suspects from all the 'named' ones.
I don't have a #1 at the moment,but Cutbush is now interesting after the recent files were opened.

[Moriarty]

Are there no notes at all of the detectives with Berry when he went to pinion Bury ?
They must have made notes at the time which is a shame..
He was a frontrunner of mine for some time and what he put his wife through was a shocker.

I'm not sure they were keen to let on that they were detectives. That might be why there are no notes.

[halomanuk]

I think they probably got lost along with so many other notes and files over the years,they must have made notes at some stage on Bury if only for the trial at least.
Oh well,maybe something will appear one day...frustrating though.