The Life of William Henry Bury

[johns]

I've had this wee snippet of information lying around for some time now and although it doesn't add or subtract anything from Bury's viability as a suspect, I think it's about time I put it up here.

Bury leaves the Blue Coat orphanage (Old Swinford Hospital) and is apprenticed to John Bennett, tailor of 29 Horsefair, Kidderminster, Worcestershire some time in 1873.

My source is the Stourbridge Library.

I actually took a visit to 29 Horsefair a while ago after I unearthed this fact and found a delapidated old building that was owned by the guys at the shop next door. I asked them some questions and they seemed a bit cautious... which is only to be expected... until I revealed why I was so interested in #29... they literally jumped up and down in excitement. Which surprised me somewhat.

So whether or not Bury was at the tailors for 2 years until 1875 when he started work at Mr Bissell's we may never know, but it adds another piece (however trivial) to the life of Bury.

John

[curious]

I've had this wee snippet of information lying around for some time now and although it doesn't add or subtract anything from Bury's viability as a suspect, I think it's about time I put it up here.

Bury leaves the Blue Coat orphanage (Old Swinford Hospital) and is apprenticed to John Bennett, tailor of 29 Horsefair, Kidderminster, Worcestershire some time in 1873.

My source is the Stourbridge Library.

I actually took a visit to 29 Horsefair a while ago after I unearthed this fact and found a delapidated old building that was owned by the guys at the shop next door. I asked them some questions and they seemed a bit cautious... which is only to be expected... until I revealed why I was so interested in #29... they literally jumped up and down in excitement. Which surprised me somewhat.

So whether or not Bury was at the tailors for 2 years until 1875 when he started work at Mr Bissell's we may never know, but it adds another piece (however trivial) to the life of Bury.

John

I find that very interesting. Thank you.

On an Aaron Kosminski thread, it was noted that the police were watching a tailor's shop.

Now it was Aaron's brother Isaac who was a lady's tailor and the people on the thread believed it was being watched because perhaps Aaron lived in the shed there, across from his sister's house.

However, how extremely interesting that Bury had that background.

curious, isn't it?

curious

[martin wilson]

Hi all,
Beginning from a position of profound ignorance, I wish to fully support anyone who puts forward William Bury as a Jack the Ripper suspect.
I freely confess my agenda, on the front cover of the Express and Star today is the news that 25% of shops are empty across the West Midlands.
Therefore my beloved black country could do with the income from Ripper tourism!
More seriously am I right in thinking that some of the murders took place in yards where you could get a horse and cart, George Yard, Dutields Yard (and there was a sack manufacturer there I believe) and Polly Nicholls was murdered near a yard
What was the story with the graffiti in his house in Dundee, a bit of press sensationalism or was this a man who had a habit of writing on walls? (the GSG?)
Lastly, I am hopeless at scales so dont pound me if I am wrong but when I look at a map of the C5 murder sites I dont see the warren of dark London streets but that they happened just off three main roads, Whitechapel Road,Commercial Road, and Commercial Street.anything in that?
all the best martin

[johns]

Hi Martin

I think yards of one sort or another were fairly common in the east End in those days, but I would have thought that someone like Bury would use 1 or 2 yards regularly rather than any yard he chanced on.

My reasoning is basically because whenever I have to go into a new town I find a parking lot and tend to stick to it in future visits. This includes places I've lived for a long time too. Creatures of habit you see us humans.

There were 2 pieces of graffiti at Bury's Dundee house "Jack Ripper is at the back of this door" and "Jack Ripper is in this sellar" [sic]. Beadle argues that Ellen wrote the graffiti, but I'm not sure.

The GSG may have been written by Jack but I personally doubt it. I think it was just some regular racist drivel scrawled on the wall in an area where graffiti was quite prevelant.

You're correct that the C5 murder sites are fairly close to the 3 streets you name, and with the exception of Stride, all are north of the Whitechapel Road. There are some fairly narrow alleyways in the area however, and they would have been darker and danker than they are now.

I lived in Bromsgrove for a good chunk of my life and spent some years living in Halesowen so I know that part of the world well.

See you "aer kid"

John

[martin wilson]

Hi John,
Thanks me mon, I can see I'm going to have to put my thinkimg cap on to build a case against Bury, so this could take a very long time.
I realised after I posted that in a city where the main means of transport was by horse power that stables would have been pretty common, I suppose it is a bit like saying it it would be significant today if they were found near a garage.
If I were a Baggies fan, this case would be cut and dried, as Bury lived in Wolverhampton for a while. No doubt they would say this is just typical behaviour for a Dingle really.
Apologies for the delay in replying. This is the wifes' laptop and she is totally addicted to it, so access is pretty limited.I spent most of last night chasing down a fascinating but probably irrelevant connection to a gallows ballad.
all the best martin

[johns]

Hi Martin

What I decided to do a few years ago (10 I think) when I decided that Bury was Jack, was to put my efforts into researching him. Luckily at the time I lived in sunny Bromsgrove, but it's harder now living up here. Must get to Dundee one day though.

Other folk research general stuff, or police matters, or history or whatever they feel they can contribute, which is absolutely fine and it all adds to the knowledge about JtR as a whole.

Boing boing boing
John

[Ashkenaz]

I would also like to recommend Euan Macpherson's book 'The Trial of Jack The Ripper'.
Eileen

PS Thanks Victoria, I have been very busy lately!

Alas I have just bought Beadle's book, I had to having read the first page !

Does any one have an idea on why Bury choose Dundee to flee to? I believe it was the furthest he could go with his his money problems. Also, there seems to be some resitance to use the death penalty there.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Ashkenaz

There's not any actual evidence (as far as I know from Beadle and Macpherson anyhow) that Bury fled to Dundee per se...notwithstanding the fact he'd steadily worked his way through Ellen's inheritance, the move seems to have been far more considered and orderly than mere "flight"...more like a deliberate distancing from their background with the disposal of Ellen always in the back of his mind (vide the packing case)...

I don't think you can necessarily read flight into the move at all...more like deliberation in fact...

All the best

Dave

[Ashkenaz]

Hi Ashkenaz

There's not any actual evidence (as far as I know from Beadle and Macpherson anyhow) that Bury fled to Dundee per se...notwithstanding the fact he'd steadily worked his way through Ellen's inheritance, the move seems to have been far more considered and orderly than mere "flight"...more like a deliberate distancing from their background with the disposal of Ellen always in the back of his mind (vide the packing case)...

I don't think you can necessarily read flight into the move at all...more like deliberation in fact...

All the best

Dave

well perhaps he walked briskly then..

[Boggles]

Does any one have an idea on why Bury choose Dundee to flee to?

We all have our own ideas. I speculate that he had a 'near miss' in Whitechapel. Either he was almost caught, questioned by the police or a witness/es gave a near accurate statement that was subsequently published in the newspapers. There had to be some trigger that scared him away. Because of his close match with the descriptions of the Farmer assailent i am very interested in this.

Whatever triggered it he changed his pattern to drink in Poplar. Nearer to his home but still a reasonably safe distance. In December where he fell in with a couple of the Dundee Jute workers who would have been in this local.

Its all conjecture of course.

[Mrsperfect]

Excerpt from my first post on this thread

From what we know, Bury's landlord thought he was going to Adelaide:

In early December Bury told his landlord William Smith, that he was thinking about going to Adelaide, Australia

This was obviously a lie to put the police off, if they were looking for him. (Why would they be looking for him)?

It could very well be a simple decision about where to go based on:

1) The steamers only went to Edinburgh and Dundee, (guessing). More chance of him getting work in Dundee?

2) Bury only knew of one employer in Scotland (Dundee) to fake the employment letter?

3) He'd heard of people he knew getting work there? (He was very surprised when he discovered there wasn't any call for similar work to the sawdust deliveries he'd done in London)

4) The most convenient to the docks for a quick getaway?

Regards

Eileen

[Mrsperfect]

Hi Ashkenaz

Why do you say Scotland had more resistance to the death penalty please? Is it because of the 'Not Guilty, Guilty, or Not proven' verdicts available?

[Ashkenaz]

Hi Ashkenaz

Why do you say Scotland had more resistance to the death penalty please? Is it because of the 'Not Guilty, Guilty, or Not proven' verdicts available?

Hi Mrsperfect
I think I read it recently , not sure where. I think it was "Not Guilty", the judge ordered them to reconsider, they then brought in the "Guilty".

The writer says that in Scotland there is some hestitance to find "Not Guilty" as it leads to a hanging.Liberals. The writer then said than Bury was the last man to hang in Dundee. That is quiet a feat, as in England criminals were hung till the fifties maybe later.

[Mrsperfect]

Trial Notes

Hi Mrsperfect
I think I read it recently , not sure where. I think it was "Not Guilty", the judge ordered them to reconsider, they then brought in the "Guilty".

The writer says that in Scotland there is some hesitance to find "Not Guilty" as it leads to a hanging.Liberals. The writer then said than Bury was the last man to hang in Dundee. That is quiet a feat, as in England criminals were hung till the fifties maybe later.

It was in the trial notes that the jury stated 'Guilty' but asked for recommendation for mercy, due to conflicting medical advice. They were told that if there was any doubt, it was their duty to acquit him. If not, then there were no grounds for recommendation for mercy.

If you take someone's life, why should a jury hesitate, even if the death sentence is applicable..........unless you didn't trust your own judgement?

[Graham]

Hi Mrsperfect
I think I read it recently , not sure where. I think it was "Not Guilty", the judge ordered them to reconsider, they then brought in the "Guilty".

The writer says that in Scotland there is some hestitance to find "Not Guilty" as it leads to a hanging.Liberals. The writer then said than Bury was the last man to hang in Dundee. That is quiet a feat, as in England criminals were hung till the fifties maybe later.

The last hanging in England was in August 1964. The last hanging in Scotland was in August 1963. Incidentally, people are 'hanged', not 'hung'.

Graham