The Life of William Henry Bury

[pinkmoon]

No Will, but I do believe JtR had a healthy respect for his own safety, so even if the escape strategy was simply "do it and leg it", Bury did not practise this ...he hung around for days then meekly handed himself in...For the rest I'll stick with my original post #54

All the best as always

Dave

Hi Dave,I agree with you on this whoever our killer was he always seemed to know when to call it time and do a runner he wasn't obviously a full shilling but he did have enough sanity to know when to call it a night.The short time he had with his victims might explain why he took organs home with him so he could spend a lot more time indulging himself obviously with Mary Kelly he had enough time to indulge himself.I believe when he was nearly caught with stride he decided to head for home and on his way bumped into eddowes and found the situation just far to tempting.

[John Wheat]

No Will, but I do believe JtR had a healthy respect for his own safety, so even if the escape strategy was simply "do it and leg it", Bury did not practise this ...he hung around for days then meekly handed himself in...

But is stuffing the body in a trunk and leaving it for days the act of a one time wife murderer or the act of a serial killer unraveling.

Cheers John

[Boggles]

the act of a serial killer unraveling

#

From Dave's point of view, its a fair question to ask why did he not attempt some better escape strategy? why did he leave body in a case go meekly to the police. Is this the behavior of that crafty and devilish killer, too clever to be caught by the whole of the London police?

But I would argue this is exactly what Jack the Ripper would have done. Like Jack, he left the victim at the scene. Half naked with guts hanging out. Like Jack he wanted the victim to be found by police.

FBI done a lot of work on this (because for some reason they seem to have many) They define serial killers into disorganised and organised. Jack sterotype was disorganised, Bury was also disorganised. Its more than a little odd to live with dead mutilated body of your wife for almost a week. All he did was mopped up and went down the pub.
He may not fit into other peoples preconceived notions of Jack but for me its got Jack Ripper in that seller written all over it.

Also a side point but substantial he almost got off scot free.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Will

If it helps I don't think you're necessarily being altogether unrealistic in your description of a serial killer unravelling...however, Bury's behaviour until reaching Dundee doesn't seem to reveal this sort of disintegration...and the lack of throatcutting and meak surrender to the police after arriving in Dundee...well let's just say there's just something about him ultimately makes me say no...

But I still see him as one of the best persons of interest in the case...if for no other reason than he's both been in the approximate area and he's done the business...but it's still on balance a no-no...

Sorry!

Dave

[Boggles]

serial killer unravelling

They do tend to unravel eventually if not caught first, we've seen this numerous times

Bury's behaviour until reaching Dundee doesn't seem to reveal this sort of disintegration

please elaborate?

well let's just say there's just something about him ultimately makes me say no...

I believe there is more work to be done, more avenues to explore, more evidence out there. I personally am convinced but take no issue with people who provide critical feedback, my background as a scientist. i appreciate your contributions.

I would point out that throat cutting would strengthen the case he was a copycat not weaken it.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Will

please elaborate?

The bold presentation of the fake letter containing the job offer, the preparations for the move, the calmly proffered lies and the move itself for that matter.

His initial presentation in Dundee, for that matter, seems to me that of the experienced conman, rather than disintegrating serial killer...

We'll never know what exactly impelled him to kill his missus when he did, but it is quite possible that having done so, he panicked, and in the stark realisation of what he'd done, started along the road to falling apart, toyed with the idea of leaving her as a potential ripper victim, (hence the almost half-hearted cutting), but then abandoned it, fell apart even more, and went to see the "pollis"

All the best

Dave

[Wyatt Earp]

Where in 1887 London (or "greater London") was Honour Road?

[Wyatt Earp]

I’ve consulted the Victorian London A-Z Street Index website—I can find an Honor Oak Road and an Honor Park Road, and it’s possible that Honour Road is a reference to one of these two roads, but this site doesn’t seem to cover outlying areas, and I know we have some mapmeisters here, so I wanted to pose the question.

This has to do with Bury’s early whereabouts in the London area. The Bury trial notes in the National Archives of Scotland can be terse and abbreviated, and it’s sometimes possible to glean additional details from the newspaper transcripts of the trial.

This is from the testimony of James Martin, Bury’s former employer (at Quickett Street), in the trial notes:

“I first came to know Prisoner two years ago. He came into my employment in October 1887 as a hawker of sawdust.”

This is from the March 28, 1889 Evening Telegraph (thanks to Adam Wood for the article):

“When did you first come to know him?—In Honour Road.

But how long ago?—About two years.

When did he come into your employment?—In October 1887.”

While we don’t know the circumstances of their initial meeting, it’s possible that Bury had an address on this Honour Road prior to moving to Quickett Street, so I’m interested in trying to pin down its location. The text in the pdf is a little blurry, but it does look like “Honour Road.”

Thanks to anyone who can help with this.

[Wyatt Earp]

How might James Martin have first come into contact with Bury?

According to the executioner James Berry, who was in a position where he could have spoken to the police about Bury, Bury at one time in London had a gig as a horse butcher, and sold cats’ meat. We know that Martin had a horse and cart, and sold sawdust, as he later gave this area of his business over to Bury in October 1887, when he hired him. There is a point of intersection between the two lines of work. In describing Bury’s work as a sawdust merchant, Macpherson writes that Bury would “buy sawdust from Martin and keep what profit he made once he had sold it to public houses and butcher shops, where it would be scattered on the floor” (pp. 43-44). Perhaps during the time when Bury was a butcher, he was one of Martin’s sawdust customers, and that was how they first came into contact with each other. It’s speculation, of course, but this Honour Road could have been where Bury’s cats’-meat business was located.

[Wyatt Earp]

In another thread I recently considered the idea that Stride knew her assailant. What evidence supports the possibility that Stride knew Bury prior to her murder?

There is trial testimony placing Bury in Whitechapel on two occasions earlier in 1888. Both occasions involve public houses, so it’s reasonable to conjecture that Bury was “hanging out” in Whitechapel. While these are only two instances, in the spirit of “for every rat you see there are ten you don’t,” it’s quite possible they are just the tip of the iceberg in terms of how much time Bury was spending in Whitechapel. There is trial testimony that Bury could be gone from home for a couple of days at a time.

A newspaper account of the police investigation into Bury, published while he was in custody, identifies him as a man who spent a good deal of time in Whitechapel. It describes him as “well known in the locality” (Beadle 2009, p.284).

There is reason to believe that Bury was a user of prostitutes, as there is trial testimony that he picked up a case of v.d. in 1888.

If Bury was well known in Whitechapel and a user of prostitutes, then it’s obviously well within the realm of possibility that he and Stride had come into contact with each other prior to her murder. If Stride, and Kelly, and one or more of the other victims already knew “Bill,” then that would help to explain how he could have gained their confidence and taken them by surprise.

[Wyatt Earp]

William Bury and Emma Smith

There’s of course no evidence that William Bury murdered Emma Smith. In considering the possibility that he was her assailant, here are some relevant points:

James Martin’s trial testimony indicates that Bury was spending time in Whitechapel in 1888, and Martin’s statement to the police that Bury had a bad case of v.d. in the spring of 1888 suggests that Bury could have been a user of prostitutes. It’s within the realm of possibility, then, that Bury had come into contact with Smith.

William and Ellen Bury were married on April 2, 1888. Emma Smith was assaulted that night. While that would have been quite a wedding night for Mr. Bury, it would also have given him a ready alibi. “No, sir, that was my wedding night, and I was at home with my wife.” If Bury held some grudge against Smith and had decided to attack her, his wedding night might actually have been a prime opportunity to do so.

We should not dismiss out of hand the possibility that Bury ditched Ellen on their wedding night and went looking for Smith. We have trial testimony from James Martin that two days after their wedding, Bury punched Ellen in the face, and trial testimony from Elizabeth Haynes that five days after their wedding, he pinned Ellen to their bed and threatened her with a knife. He behaved very poorly toward Ellen in the immediate aftermath of their wedding.

James Martin’s statement to the police indicated that Bury picked up his case of “very bad” v.d. in May 1888, which, if Martin’s recollection was accurate, would rule out the possibility that the attack on Smith was revenge for giving him that case of v.d. If Bury indeed attacked Smith and his attack on her was premeditated, he must have held a grudge against her for some other reason.

If Bury assaulted Smith, there's also of course the possibility that the attack was not premeditated; that he simply ditched Ellen that night and went into Whitechapel.

Keppel et al could not link the Emma Smith murder to the Ripper via signature analysis, however if the attack on Smith was not intended to be a murder, but was simply intended to be an assault, that would explain the absence of homicide signature characteristics.

Again, there’s no evidence that Bury murdered Smith, but these are some things to consider for anyone entertaining the possibility that he did.

[Harry D]

I see no reason to doubt that Emma Smith wasn't attacked by a gang. Sometimes trying to link your suspect to other murders in the series, however tenuous, can undermine their legitimacy.

Still haven't made my mind up about Bury. He's probably the likeliest candidate we have on paper, more so than the official police suspects. There's no evidence that the likes of Kosminski, Druitt, Tumblety etc. had that kind of violent potential in their character to commit these crimes. Bury, however, was an abusive wife-beater and a known murderer who strangled his spouse and mutilated her corpse. However, it was closer to a bungled copycat murder than Ripper-esque per se. She was strangled with a ligature, her throat wasn't slashed, and the post-mortem wounds were extremely tentative for a man who had several days alone with the body, and Bury's reaction to her murder doesn't across like one who is used to butchering women and getting away with it.

[Wyatt Earp]

I see no reason to doubt that Emma Smith wasn't attacked by a gang. Sometimes trying to link your suspect to other murders in the series, however tenuous, can undermine their legitimacy.

Still haven't made my mind up about Bury. He's probably the likeliest candidate we have on paper, more so than the official police suspects. There's no evidence that the likes of Kosminski, Druitt, Tumblety etc. had that kind of violent potential in their character to commit these crimes. Bury, however, was an abusive wife-beater and a known murderer who strangled his spouse and mutilated her corpse. However, it was closer to a bungled copycat murder than Ripper-esque per se. She was strangled with a ligature, her throat wasn't slashed, and the post-mortem wounds were extremely tentative for a man who had several days alone with the body, and Bury's reaction to her murder doesn't across like one who is used to butchering women and getting away with it.

No, I'm not arguing that Bury murdered Smith, I'm simply laying out the terrain for assessing that possibility.

Your analysis of Bury is off the mark. As I explained in my article in the Rip, the Ellen Bury murder can be closely mapped to the Ripper's signature, the possibility of a copycat murder can be easily dismissed, the MO of a serial killer can vary among crime scenes, and Bury had an obvious situational incentive to tone down the mutilations (people knew they lived there). The usual objections to Bury do not survive critical scrutiny; I'm surprised that posters keep trotting them out.

[John Wheat]

Your analysis of Bury is off the mark. As I explained in my article in the Rip, the Ellen Bury murder can be closely mapped to the Ripper's signature, the possibility of a copycat murder can be easily dismissed, the MO of a serial killer can vary among crime scenes, and Bury had an obvious situational incentive to tone down the mutilations (people knew they lived there). The usual objections to Bury do not survive critical scrutiny; I'm surprised that posters keep trotting them out.

I agree Wyatt there are a few usual objections to Bury being the Ripper that are often trotted out. Bury was just a copycat killer, the mutilations on Ellen Bury were not extensive enough, Bury may have committed one or two of the early Ripper murders but wasn't Jack the Ripper etc.

Cheers John

[Harry D]

I agree Wyatt there are a few usual objections to Bury being the Ripper that are often trotted out. Bury was just a copycat killer, the mutilations on Ellen Bury were not extensive enough, Bury may have committed one or two of the early Ripper murders but wasn't Jack the Ripper etc.

Cheers John

And those are all valid objections to Bury being the Ripper.