William Bury website

[Sam Flynn]

Hundreds of people claimed to be the Ripper in all those hoax letters, but it's a safe bet that none of those was a confession by the killer himself. Some people told the police that they were the Ripper, when they weren't.

[John Wheat]

Are we absolutely sure? Not that it matters; semi-literate graffiti scrawled on a wall before he killed Ellen is hardly likely to be a confession on Bury's part.

Well the graffiti was reportedly much older than the murder. I still think Bury or Ellen wrote the graffiti which must increase his likeliness of being the Ripper. Local kids or whoever else being responsible just doesn't seem that likely.

[Sam Flynn]

But they dated from before the murder Sam.

Are we absolutely sure? Not that it matters; semi-literate graffiti scrawled on a wall before he killed Ellen is hardly likely to be a confession on Bury's part.

[John Wheat]

The chalked writing could also have been part of a feeble attempt to pin the murder on the Ripper.

But they dated from before the murder Sam.

[rjpalmer]

in the annals of true crime there has never been an instance of someone trying to copy another known murderers MO and or sig to throw off police or because they just wanted to.

Hi Abby, well, if you believe that, then you haven't read enough "true crime." One example, among others, is the case of Jeffery MacDonald, M.D., from February, 1970, when the "Charles Manson"/Helter Skelter murders were still very much in the news. MacDonald's wife and children were horrifically murdered, stabbed repeatedly with knives and ice picks. The word "Pig" was written on the wall in blood. I think his wife was stabbed some 40 times. A dazed and injured MacDonald claimed the house had been invaded in the middle of the night by hippies, who then attacked them. One of these long-haired freaks supposedly said "Acid is groovy, kill the pigs."


Not surprisingly, the police and the prosecutors didn't believe MacDonald's account and he was ultimately convicted and is still in prison, though he does have his supporters. In searching the house after the murders, the police found a magazine with a prominent article about the Manson murders. They concluded that MacDonald lost it, killed his wife, then his children, and then staged the scene to look like it was done by drug-crazed hippies because of the great prominence given to the Tate/Labianca murders in the press.

Besides "signature" is really so much psychobabble. The University of Liverpool did a study and concluded it was pseudo-science and cannot be relied upon. All the best.

[Sam Flynn]

The chalked writing could also have been part of a feeble attempt to pin the murder on the Ripper.

[John Wheat]

In my opinion too little is made of the chalk writing's at the Bury's flat its just too much of a coincednce that what amounts to a confession is chalked at the last residence of a Ripper suspect who committed a Ripper like murder.

[Sam Flynn]

in the annals of true crime there has never been an instance of someone trying to copy another known murderers MO and or sig to throw off police or because they just wanted to.

I wouldn't be so sure. Besides, it's hardly beyond the bounds of possibility, and certainly within the capacity of a drunk to think of doing such a thing.

The term copy cat re serial murder is nonsense.

But then, Bury was probably not a serial killer.

[Single-O-Seven]

And if Bury is JTR, we run into the issue of "copycat" (or an attempted one) with regard to McKenzie.

[Abby Normal]

Theres no such thing as "copycat" murders. either bury was the ripper hence the similarities or he wasn't and its just a coincidence.
in the annals of true crime there has never been an instance of someone trying to copy another known murderers MO and or sig to throw off police or because they just wanted to. The psychology of a serial killer goes much deeper than that and they do what they do because of complicated and deep seated fantasy and urges. The term copy cat re serial murder is nonsense.

[Sam Flynn]

Like I said, it was at most an attempt at a copycat, and not a very good one at that. It's still possible that it was, in the sense of "Oh $hit, I've strangled her! I know, I'll cut her belly a bit to make it look like the Ripper did it"

[Wyatt Earp]

I don't see toned down similarities but, at best, a tentative attempt at a copycat crime - and not a very good one at that.

A copycat explanation of the Ellen Bury murder can be safely excluded.

• Victim’s throat not cut
• Victim’s body not abandoned
• Subject did not go to police with story that Jack the Ripper murdered his spouse
• Signature match too precise for murder to be lazy knockoff (e.g., presence of incapacitation); the copycat murderer of Alice McKenzie went to great lengths to simulate a Ripper murder, but even he couldn’t get this right
• Subject demonstrated no particular interest in the Jack the Ripper murders prior to spouse’s murder (no collection of Jack the Ripper newspaper clippings, no evidence from trial of interest in Jack the Ripper case, when subject and spouse were asked about the Whitechapel murders by resident of Dundee, subject replied, “I do not know so much about that”)
• Subject did not confess to being a copycat nor demonstrate any interest in the Jack the Ripper murders following his conviction
• Subject can be linked to Whitechapel prior to the Jack the Ripper murders
• Subject can be linked to prostitutes prior to the Jack the Ripper murders
• Subject aligns exceptionally well with key eyewitness descriptions in the Jack the Ripper case
• Main set of mutilations conducted at approximate time of death; if planned copycat murder, victim’s throat would have been cut at time of murder
• Items in trunk align with items known to be missing (two rings) and presumed to be missing (thimble) from Annie Chapman

[Sam Flynn]

I don't see toned down similarities but, at best, a tentative attempt at a copycat crime - and not a very good one at that.

[etenguy]

We can use such things to make any number of suspects fit, and we have to draw the line somewhere. Jack the Ripper drew very firm, decisive lines across his victims' throats, and he didn't use a piece of string to do so.

I think this is a little overstated. I'm not a Bury champion, but there are not any number of potential suspects that match so closely the attack methodology of the ripper. I appreciate the differences also, the use of a ligature and not a knife and the reduced level of mutilation, but the similarities in style (signature) are striking, if toned down.

[Abby Normal]

I suppose it depends if you consider Millwood and Tabram as victims, too. I tend to, though I know it's a contentious issue.

Hi Single
I do too-it shows a natural progression/ escalation. of course in ellens case there is deviation in that, but seeing as she was his wife and also differing circs it may account for it.