William Bury website

[Wyatt Earp]

Excuse me, Wyatt, I'm still not following. Stride's killer (Bury) was a previous punter. He propositions her on the street, she isn't interested and he manhandles her to the floor. After that altercation, she has a change of heart and suddenly goes into the yard with the guy who just assaulted her?

I’d suggest things could have transpired like this. After Schwartz and Pipeman had left, he told her that he was going to pop her in the chops if she didn’t go into the yard with him and give him what he wanted. Stride, having done business with him before and survived it, decides discretion is the better part of valor, picks herself up, dusts herself off, and grudgingly agrees to go into the yard with him. He either hands her the cachous to distract her, or she takes them out on her own to calm her nerves after that little tango outside the gate, and that’s when Bury strikes.

[Wyatt Earp]

Hello Seven,

Even if he eliminated Stride as a witness he was still seen by Schwartz and Pipe Man.

c.d.

But if Schwartz and Pipeman did not know his name, he would not have been in danger from them.

[Wyatt Earp]

"I expect Bury would have been concerned about Stride identifying him either out of her unhappiness about the incident, or because the police might have pressured her to do so."

Identify him how? By name or description? How likely is it that the police would have said "a woman engaging in an illegal activity has been pushed and disrespected in Whitechapel. Well not on our watch. Drop all other ongoing investigations (including all other crimes) and focus all your attention on catching this man."

Could the police have thought the BS man could have been the Ripper if he had walked away and been reported by Stride? Sure. But so could every man that pushed a woman or slapped her or made some drunken remark that the whores got what they deserved. Other crime and misogyny didn't stop in Whitechapel during the Ripper murders. There were only so many police to conduct investigations. They had to pick and choose on what leads to pursue.

c.d.

The assumption I’m making is that Stride knew him by name. One can make a reasonable argument that Bury should not have been too concerned about a police investigation, but it’s important for us to put ourselves in Bury’s shoes at the time of the incident. He knew that he had already murdered three women, he knew the police were looking for him, so probably the last thing he would want was for the police to come knocking on his door in connection with an assault on a prostitute on the streets of Whitechapel. So after Schwartz and Pipeman had left, Bury had a choice to make. Should I just walk away, say my prayers, and hope that Stride doesn’t ID me and that the police don’t come looking for me, or should I take matters into my hands, eliminate Stride so that there’s no risk of my being identified, and simply get the h out of there? While you might have been willing to roll the dice with Bury’s neck, Bury himself might have had other ideas. I don’t think we should be at all surprised that a serial murderer would choose to solve a problem like this by simply committing another murder.

[Wyatt Earp]

I very much enjoy your William Bury website and regularly check in to see if you've updated it. I find your discussions and analyses interesting.

I do think WHB is the best suspect there is. Signature analysis may be our best hope of solving (or coming close to an answer) the JTR murders. And WHB is undoubtedly the only one who can be confirmed as demonstrating himself as a murderer with the same signature as JTR. That's quite telling. Add that to the fact that no hurdles and shuffling of times/locations need to be performed to suggest he was in the East End throughout the JTR crimes. We know he was there, just as we know he pulled a lot of BS to get himself out of there at the end of the spree. All of these details cannot be convincingly stated for any one else.

While it is still - and may always be - conjecture, the known evidence and rational analyses of the case fit best with WHB, IMO. Why so much effort and emphasis is placed on suspects who require leaps of logic and the bending of evidence to paint them as JTR is beyond me.

I'd like to think research may uncover further and even better evidence/details about WHB. Perhaps you could do an entry on your website outlining missing details in Bury's history, and where our best chances of finding such information may lie? This may spur on researchers to start looking in the right places, and more holes in the story of WHB might get filled in.

Thanks for that, 07. There’s a lot about Bury that we don’t know. For example, where in London did he stay when he first arrived in the area? Did he initially stay in the Whitechapel area before landing at Martin’s place? That’s certainly worth exploring. I’m in the U.S. and unable to get over to the U.K. to conduct research, but I’m hoping that Bury researchers in the U.K. can uncover more things about him.

[Single-O-Seven]

Hi Abby!

Alice McKenzie is an interesting thorn in the debate of Bury's candidacy as JTR. Outside of Tabram through Kelly, she is the next best fit in the entire Whitechapel series as being a possible JTR victim. However, I think the "mild" abdominal cuts (described almost as scratches) suggest she was not a JTR victim. I just don't see why he wouldn't have cut deeper given he had the chance to do so.

Perhaps a similar argument could be made for Ellen Bury (though her wounds were deep enough to expose her intestines), but I feel her immediate connection to Bury likely gave him cause to hesitate. He wanted to explore that lust/fascination that satisfied him, but given she was his own wife this may have impacted his desire to do so, perhaps out of fear of looking too inescapably like the Ripper.

With AM, I cannot quite get what her killer was otherwise trying to do. By making the abdominal cuts was he making her murder seem Ripper-like but did not have the nerve (let alone the need/desire) to fully inflict the sort of savagery JTR did? And what became of her killer? Why did he not strike again, or did he end up moving away/incarcerated/dead? There is a whole worthwhile mystery in just AM's death, but it may, I'm afraid, be more hopeless to find a solution for it than for the rest of the series.

[c.d.]

Excuse me, Wyatt, I'm still not following. Stride's killer (Bury) was a previous punter. He propositions her on the street, she isn't interested and he manhandles her to the floor. After that altercation, she has a change of heart and suddenly goes into the yard with the guy who just assaulted her?

Hello Harry,

While Stride going into the yard with the B.S. man (be it Bury or someone else) seems unlikely it cannot be ruled out entirely. He claims it was an accident, apologizes profusely and offers even more money than the usual price. Hard to say what her response would be.

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

I very much enjoy your William Bury website and regularly check in to see if you've updated it. I find your discussions and analyses interesting.

I do think WHB is the best suspect there is. Signature analysis may be our best hope of solving (or coming close to an answer) the JTR murders. And WHB is undoubtedly the only one who can be confirmed as demonstrating himself as a murderer with the same signature as JTR. That's quite telling. Add that to the fact that no hurdles and shuffling of times/locations need to be performed to suggest he was in the East End throughout the JTR crimes. We know he was there, just as we know he pulled a lot of BS to get himself out of there at the end of the spree. All of these details cannot be convincingly stated for any one else.

While it is still - and may always be - conjecture, the known evidence and rational analyses of the case fit best with WHB, IMO. Why so much effort and emphasis is placed on suspects who require leaps of logic and the bending of evidence to paint them as JTR is beyond me.

I'd like to think research may uncover further and even better evidence/details about WHB. Perhaps you could do an entry on your website outlining missing details in Bury's history, and where our best chances of finding such information may lie? This may spur on researchers to start looking in the right places, and more holes in the story of WHB might get filled in.

hi single and wyatt
I too think Bury is one of the best candidates for Jack the ripper. However, my main problem with him, ironically is based on signature evidence.

I have come to the conclusion that Alice Mckenzie was undoubtedly a ripper victim, mainly on the signature evidence-slashed throat and mutilated abdomen. (along with same victimology and location).

but of course she couldn't have been killed by Bury as ripper, obviously since bury was dead by this point.

what say you?

[Harry D]

She evidently did not want to service him that night. Perhaps she was waiting for someone else, perhaps she was unhappy about some previous engagement with him. There are multiple possibilities.

Excuse me, Wyatt, I'm still not following. Stride's killer (Bury) was a previous punter. He propositions her on the street, she isn't interested and he manhandles her to the floor. After that altercation, she has a change of heart and suddenly goes into the yard with the guy who just assaulted her?

[Single-O-Seven]

Very true! Which is why I think the witness elimination angle is irrelevant anyway.

[c.d.]

Hello Seven,

Even if he eliminated Stride as a witness he was still seen by Schwartz and Pipe Man.

c.d.

[Single-O-Seven]

What you say is likely true - the police might not have thought the matter a big enough deal to connect with JTR and Eddowes' murder. But Stride's attacker may not have thought so. He may have panicked and, before moving on, considered it in his best interest to make sure Stride couldn't ID him if it came to that.

In any case, I think the argument irrelevant. I feel her attacker killed her with the intent of fulfilling his needs, but was interrupted or became too nervous and fled before he could go further with it.

[c.d.]

"I expect Bury would have been concerned about Stride identifying him either out of her unhappiness about the incident, or because the police might have pressured her to do so."

Identify him how? By name or description? How likely is it that the police would have said "a woman engaging in an illegal activity has been pushed and disrespected in Whitechapel. Well not on our watch. Drop all other ongoing investigations (including all other crimes) and focus all your attention on catching this man."

Could the police have thought the BS man could have been the Ripper if he had walked away and been reported by Stride? Sure. But so could every man that pushed a woman or slapped her or made some drunken remark that the whores got what they deserved. Other crime and misogyny didn't stop in Whitechapel during the Ripper murders. There were only so many police to conduct investigations. They had to pick and choose on what leads to pursue.

c.d.

[Single-O-Seven]

I very much enjoy your William Bury website and regularly check in to see if you've updated it. I find your discussions and analyses interesting.

I do think WHB is the best suspect there is. Signature analysis may be our best hope of solving (or coming close to an answer) the JTR murders. And WHB is undoubtedly the only one who can be confirmed as demonstrating himself as a murderer with the same signature as JTR. That's quite telling. Add that to the fact that no hurdles and shuffling of times/locations need to be performed to suggest he was in the East End throughout the JTR crimes. We know he was there, just as we know he pulled a lot of BS to get himself out of there at the end of the spree. All of these details cannot be convincingly stated for any one else.

While it is still - and may always be - conjecture, the known evidence and rational analyses of the case fit best with WHB, IMO. Why so much effort and emphasis is placed on suspects who require leaps of logic and the bending of evidence to paint them as JTR is beyond me.

I'd like to think research may uncover further and even better evidence/details about WHB. Perhaps you could do an entry on your website outlining missing details in Bury's history, and where our best chances of finding such information may lie? This may spur on researchers to start looking in the right places, and more holes in the story of WHB might get filled in.

[Wyatt Earp]

Not necessarily. Beggars can't be choosers. Prostitutes still had to eat, drink and find a bed for the night. Unless he was frothing at the mouth and scraping two butcher knives together, I doubt they were that picky.

I'm a little confused because this contradicts the previous statement. If Stride was familiar and comfortable around this punter, why was she struggling with him in the street?

She evidently did not want to service him that night. Perhaps she was waiting for someone else, perhaps she was unhappy about some previous engagement with him. There are multiple possibilities.

Bury was far from the only purveyor of prostitutes, and we lack proof that Bury visited whores in the Whitechapel area. He may have operated closer to home.

At Bury’s trial his former employer James Martin provided testimony which suggested that in June, 1888, Bury had gotten drunk in a pub in Whitechapel. At roughly the same time, Bury contracted a case of v.d. Bury obviously could have picked up his case of v.d. somewhere other than Whitechapel, but if he was getting drunk in Whitechapel, it seems reasonable to suggest that he could have been using prostitutes there as well.

Why would Stride ID him? Prostitutes aren't in the habit of cooperating with police, particularly over something like a minor street scuffle. She would most likely deny or downplay what happened to withhold the fact she was soliciting that night.

I expect Bury would have been concerned about Stride identifying him either out of her unhappiness about the incident, or because the police might have pressured her to do so.

[Wyatt Earp]

Good website. Are you going to let us know how Bury is connected to Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly? Or are you planning a book to reveal this? I'm interested in the Stride theory, now you have to show the Bury link with the others to make me more convinced!

The signature evidence shows that the same person murdered Martha Tabram, Mary Ann Nichols, Annie Chapman, Catherine Eddowes, Mary Jane Kelly and Ellen Bury. Since we know who murdered one of these women, we know who murdered all of them. As a reminder, signature evidence is admissible in court and has been used to help secure convictions of serial killers. It is not like graphological evidence, which cannot be trusted and has routinely been excluded from trials. Members of the community should keep these facts in mind and not dismiss signature evidence as unreliable "profiling."