William Bury website

[Wyatt Earp]

Hi Michael, thanks for visiting the website. I have never claimed that the Stride murder could be linked to the Ripper’s signature (if you look at the main page of the Bury website, for example, you’ll see that I don’t list Stride as one of Bury’s victims). That said, I accept that there is a statistical argument to be made that the Stride and Eddowes murders were almost certainly committed by the same person (close proximity in space and time, cut throat, similar victim characteristics, etc., all the stuff we’ve heard before). Experienced guys like John Douglas accept this argument as well. For me, the challenge, then, was to try to develop a reasonable scenario in which Bury could have been the person who murdered Stride, given the obvious differences between the Stride and Eddowes crime scenes. Schwartz’s account was apparently taken seriously by Swanson, which was enough for me to want to explore it, and my post on the Stride murder was the result of that exploration. Can it be proven that Bury murdered Stride? Of course not. Do I think that he killed her? Yep.

I disagree with you about Tabram, as do Keppel, Weis, Brown and Welch in their article. Important signature elements are there, as I showed in Table 1 of “The Bury ID.”

Have a great weekend, everyone.

[Michael W Richards]

The signature evidence shows that the same person murdered Martha Tabram, Mary Ann Nichols, Annie Chapman, Catherine Eddowes, Mary Jane Kelly and Ellen Bury. Since we know who murdered one of these women, we know who murdered all of them. As a reminder, signature evidence is admissible in court and has been used to help secure convictions of serial killers. It is not like graphological evidence, which cannot be trusted and has routinely been excluded from trials. Members of the community should keep these facts in mind and not dismiss signature evidence as unreliable "profiling."

First off I did visit the site and read the Stride murder synopsis. Using one of the witnesses that was not involved in the Inquest into Liz Strides death as something pivotal in this murder isn't, for me anyway, a viable premise. The fact that anyone said in print in a memo or for the press that they believed Schwartz is immaterial when juxtaposed with his obvious absence in the records. There is no physical evidence that Strides killer was interrupted, stopped from completing acts, showed hesitation, partial preparation or even touched Strides body after the single throat cut. And we have a contemporary medical authority on these cases, having personally inspected 4 of the five victims, that Stride was not killed by Annies killer, or in the same way.

Some M/O features, or signatures for the killer, without Tabram..(because I, like almost every contemporary investigator and almost every student of the cases since, do not see any evidence that would suggest marriage of Marthas killer with Polly, Annie, Kate or Marys killer(s)...and because Martha was almost certainly killed by one man with a pen knife and another with a dagger),... would be Middle aged women soliciting as targets, killer and prey do NOT know each other, double throat cuts to expedite blood letting and abdominal mutilations immediately thereafter.

If I were a "Buryist" Id focus on looking at crimes that are not focused on pm mutilating.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The handwriting evidence suggests that the two messages at the rear of the residence are specimens of disguised handwriting and that they were written by the same person. That points to William Bury being the author, as he was experienced at disguising his handwriting while Ellen Bury could apparently barely write.

Suggests...

It no more points to William or Ellen than it does to the postman or the butcher. If he put her in a box, suggesting that he was considering of disposing of her body, then he decides to confess why the hell would have bother writing the graffiti? Unsurprisingly it makes no sense.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Abby, here are Keppel, Weis, Brown and Welch on the display issue in the Ripper murders: “…the victims were left in the open and on display in an effort to further degrade them and shock those who discovered the bodies. No efforts were made to hide or dispose of the victims. The first five victims were intentionally left in outdoor locations. In the Kelly case, he left her in her own room where she would be found by anyone searching for her. In fact, this killer obviously left the victims where others would find them.” According to this description, the Ellen Bury was a display murder, as William Bury did not transport or hide her body, and he ensured that her body would be quickly discovered by informing the Dundee police of its location. It’s not reasonable to argue that Bury made an effort to hide the body by putting it in the trunk, as he led the police directly to the trunk. From a display perspective, the Ellen Bury murder was actually very similar to the Mary Kelly murder. In the Mary Kelly murder, her body was in her bed, and in the Ellen Bury murder, her body was in a trunk close to her bed.

More comedy.

They said - in the open, on display.......not in a box!

You cannot display someone, as the ripper did with his victims by putting them in a box in a room in a house where no one else was expected to be. If he’d have left her there and simply escaped leaving her to be discovered then you might be able to suggest that he was doing it so that he could think of the horror at her discovery. But this isn’t what happened. He deliberately went to the police. If he’d intended this all along he wouldn't have bothered putting her in the trunk. He have killed her and trundled off to the station. So it was a case of either a) he hadn’t decided on his next move So he put her somewhere out of sight, or b) he intended to dispose of the body but then changed his mind and confessed. So it’s simply twisted logic you're using...again.

Ellen Bury Murder similar to Mary Kelly?

Active Street prostitute/woman at home.
Stranger killer/familial murder.
Horrendous mutilations/injuries not in the same league.
Parts strewn around the room/nothing.
Heart missing/nothing missing.
Kelly on her bed/Bury in a box.
Killer escapes/killer confesses.

Yes, they’re almost interchangeable

[Wyatt Earp]

and re the ripper related graffiti on his house-it does seem like could be neighborhood kids ragging on a nasty character whos from London, but I wouldn't dismiss it-the ripper was known to have probably written graffiti before, and with Burys apparent obsession with NOT being the ripper-it could be significant.

If he was the ripper, I could see the un ripper like way he got caught, along with the graffiti as a man unravelling psychologically.

The whole 'Jack Ripper Is At The Back Of The Door' and the 'Jack Ripper Is In This Seller[sic]' does sound like the graffiti kids would write, rather than the real killer's confession.

The handwriting evidence suggests that the two messages at the rear of the residence are specimens of disguised handwriting and that they were written by the same person. That points to William Bury being the author, as he was experienced at disguising his handwriting while Ellen Bury could apparently barely write.

[Wyatt Earp]

while I think Bury is a very valid suspect for the ripper murders, Im with herlock and Harry on doubts how a body can be displayed in a sexually degraded position while stuffed in a trunk. perhaps its possible, but unless wyatt can specifically show how this is so and or quote experts who say this-id need more info to consider.

It seems that stuffing a body in a trunk is the first move to hide and get rid of a body-not display it IMHO.

Hi Abby, here are Keppel, Weis, Brown and Welch on the display issue in the Ripper murders: “…the victims were left in the open and on display in an effort to further degrade them and shock those who discovered the bodies. No efforts were made to hide or dispose of the victims. The first five victims were intentionally left in outdoor locations. In the Kelly case, he left her in her own room where she would be found by anyone searching for her. In fact, this killer obviously left the victims where others would find them.” According to this description, the Ellen Bury was a display murder, as William Bury did not transport or hide her body, and he ensured that her body would be quickly discovered by informing the Dundee police of its location. It’s not reasonable to argue that Bury made an effort to hide the body by putting it in the trunk, as he led the police directly to the trunk. From a display perspective, the Ellen Bury murder was actually very similar to the Mary Kelly murder. In the Mary Kelly murder, her body was in her bed, and in the Ellen Bury murder, her body was in a trunk close to her bed.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Btw, someone really needs to edit Bury's entry on Murderpedia. It speaks about him attacking Ada Wilson and Annie Millwood as if they are known facts: https://murderpedia.org/male.B/b/bury-william-henry.htm

It also claims Bury pretended an intruder had killed Ellen, when in fact he said she accidentally killed herself.

Jumping Jehoshaphat! That's an absolutely shocking bio, I've rarely seen such a piss poor piece of "factual" work.

[Harry D]

and re the ripper related graffiti on his house-it does seem like could be neighborhood kids ragging on a nasty character whos from London

I thought there were coppers stationed at the house? Although I doubt they were there 24/7. There would've been a chance for some daring scallywag to write the graffiti. The whole 'Jack Ripper Is At The Back Of The Door' and the 'Jack Ripper Is In This Seller[sic]' does sound like the graffiti kids would write, rather than the real killer's confession.

[Harry D]

In the Courier article, Stewart and Murray didn’t say anything about the murder being a sexual homicide.

Fair enough.

Perhaps because he didn’t want her stinking corpse in bed with him? He lived with the corpse for days before reporting her death to the police.

Well then, that's more of a practical matter isn't it?

Btw, someone really needs to edit Bury's entry on Murderpedia. It speaks about him attacking Ada Wilson and Annie Millwood as if they are known facts: https://murderpedia.org/male.B/b/bury-william-henry.htm

It also claims Bury pretended an intruder had killed Ellen, when in fact he said she accidentally killed herself.

[Abby Normal]

while I think Bury is a very valid suspect for the ripper murders, Im with herlock and Harry on doubts how a body can be displayed in a sexually degraded position while stuffed in a trunk. perhaps its possible, but unless wyatt can specifically show how this is so and or quote experts who say this-id need more info to consider.

It seems that stuffing a body in a trunk is the first move to hide and get rid of a body-not display it IMHO.

and re the ripper related graffiti on his house-it does seem like could be neighborhood kids ragging on a nasty character whos from London, but I wouldn't dismiss it-the ripper was known to have probably written graffiti before, and with Burys apparent obsession with NOT being the ripper-it could be significant.

If he was the ripper, I could see the un ripper like way he got caught, along with the graffiti as a man unravelling psychologically.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Whatever. Just go on ignoring the well qualified people who have thoroughly reviewed the Bury case materials and who believe that it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Bury was the Ripper. Rock on.

“Whatever.”

I cant compete with debating skills like that.

Two or three people favour Bury. Case closed. Well done.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Perhaps because he didn’t want her stinking corpse in bed with him? He lived with the corpse for days before reporting her death to the police.

Possibly he was considering what to do, how to dispose of her , but eventually he decided to give himself up.

[Wyatt Earp]

A calm, reasoned assessment of Bury as a suspect is always welcome. Unfortunately you appear to have become a zealot on the subject. Debating with you is like debating someone who thinks the Earth is 6000 years old I’m afraid. You will admit to no doubts. This level of ludicrous over-confidence should be a warning to all.

Whatever. Just go on ignoring the well qualified people who have thoroughly reviewed the Bury case materials and who believe that it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Bury was the Ripper. Rock on.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Okay, so Stewart and Murray were speaking generally and did not comment on the positioning of the body when reaching their conclusion that this was a sexual homicide?

I would assume that there are only so many ways to cram a body into a trunk. Also, the Ripper's victims were purposely killed where they would be found by others. Presumably, Bury placed Ellen into the trunk because he intended to dispose of the body. If that wasn't the case, why store her there in the first place?

A natural and reasonable assumption Harry. Man kills wife, what’s his next move? Get rid of the body. He’s hardly likely to have walked out onto the street will Ellen over his shoulder.

[Wyatt Earp]

Okay, so Stewart and Murray were speaking generally and did not comment on the positioning of the body when reaching their conclusion that this was a sexual homicide?

In the Courier article, Stewart and Murray didn’t say anything about the murder being a sexual homicide. The Ellen Bury murder can be classified as a sexual homicide because of the genital mutilations, which are described in detail in the two medical reports on the Bury website.

I would assume that there are only so many ways to cram a body into a trunk. Also, the Ripper's victims were purposely killed where they would be found by others. Presumably, Bury placed Ellen into the trunk because he intended to dispose of the body. If that wasn't the case, why store her there in the first place?

Perhaps because he didn’t want her stinking corpse in bed with him? He lived with the corpse for days before reporting her death to the police.