Barnett in 1901?

[Joshua Rogan]

That is odd....I reckon it can only be because one of the people Kozebrodsky assaulted was Julius Barnett

[Paddy]

Oops !

Well I really dont know what happened there please ignore last post re Kozebrodske, as thread appears to have jumped somehow ???

[Paddy]

Isaac Kozebroske Times March 9th 1889

Yes you are correct he was too old.

I have found this from an article in the times above date...

Isaac Kozebrodske aged 19, a machinest of 40 Old Ford Road Bethnal Green

Samuel Friedman Cap blocker of 85 Weaver Street Spitalfields.

Pat......

[MrBarnett]

I think Hostler was a bit casual with names anyway. Didn't he bottle his own fizzy drinks and then stick "R Whites" on them before selling them?

Yes, I think the idea came to him after a heavy session down the pub. If you look very closely at the labels you will see written in small print 'bottled at sauce.'

[Robert]

I think Hostler was a bit casual with names anyway. Didn't he bottle his own fizzy drinks and then stick "R Whites" on them before selling them?

[MrBarnett]

No I don't know where he worked, but presumably the raw fish he smoked came from Billingsgate even if the smoking itself wasn't done there.

He does seem to have led a rather stable life, though, so I've never had him pegged as a potential MJK JB.

The family were in the horse butchery game in the area for 40 or 50 years and then they drifted away for some reason. My ggg grandfather moved up to Wolverhampton for a decade or so (Bilston Road initially, very close to Eddowes family in Bilston Street) and then returned to work for Harrison Barber in Islington. That line maintained the connection to horse slaughtering until the early 1930s.

[Debra A]

Yes, I knew it was MS who mentioned the t/tt. Apologies if it came across that I was lecturing you (or anyone else for that matter) on it. Spellings can be frustratingly inconsistent. Some of my ancestors were named Humphries/Humphreys. My mother spelt her name ies but some of her siblings spelt it eys.

BTW, the fish curer's father, also JEB, was my 4 x great uncle.

Ah, right. I knew your Barnett's were slaughterers in the area but didn't click to the connection here! I bet you wondered yourself originally when you found you had a relative named Joseph Barnett who dabbled in fish? Do you know where the fish curer worked, Gary? It's not relelvant to this discussion but I originally wondered if he might also have connections to Billingsgate as they employed fish curers there as well didn't they?

No problem about the t thing, I've given the lecture a few times myself with the Fleming/Flemming issue, which took a lot of explaining to one particular person in the past.

[MrBarnett]

Hi Gary
I just posted exactly the same thing about relying on spellings and double 't' etc on another thread!It was MS who mentioned that btw, not me. I never place any reliance on spelling of a name to ID someone.


Yes, I think the Infirmary record of Daniel Barnett, fish porter. giving his brother Joseph's address as 4 James Place Cannon St Rd in 1897 and the link to the Hostlers shows Sally was correct in the ID. That's why I posted it in case anyone still had doubts.

Yes, I knew it was MS who mentioned the t/tt. Apologies if it came across that I was lecturing you (or anyone else for that matter) on it. Spellings can be frustratingly inconsistent. Some of my ancestors were named Humphries/Humphreys. My mother spelt her name ies but some of her siblings spelt it eys.

BTW, the fish curer's father, also JEB, was my 4 x great uncle.

[Debra A]

Which adds to my earlier suggestion that whoever provided the data to the enumerator was a little slapdash.

As we know ages can vary on censuses and often if the exact POB is unknown, the default is the place of residence. Where JB was born was by no stretch of the imagination STGITE. (It was, however, a very close-knit Irish colony where The families of John McCarthy and Margaret Sullivan also lived. It was largely demolished in the late 1870s.)

I thought it looked like some kind of tally mark added a bit heavy -handedly. The same definitely occurred in the household above on the entry Robert posted.

I agree about the POB issue on the entry for Joseph and Emily in 1901. It's another frustrating frequent occurence. Nearly as annoying as the enumerator who switches the place of birth of a husband and wife around!

[Debra A]

Hi Debra,

Collingwood Street was just the other side of Brady Street from the Winthrop Street area where the 19/5/52 JEB's extended family had lived and worked as horse slaughterers/butchers for decades.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the t/tt discrepancy. It happens with that (this) name. The fish curer was t in 1891 and tt in 1901.

I think the connection via Daniel to the Hostlers is pretty strong evidence that the OGL man is the right one.

Gary

Hi Gary
I just posted exactly the same thing about relying on spellings and double 't' etc on another thread!It was MS who mentioned that btw, not me. I never place any reliance on spelling of a name to ID someone.


Yes, I think the Infirmary record of Daniel Barnett, fish porter. giving his brother Joseph's address as 4 James Place Cannon St Rd in 1897 and the link to the Hostlers shows Sally was correct in the ID. That's why I posted it in case anyone still had doubts.

[MrBarnett]

I think it was deliberate mark that unfortunately added 10 years, Robert. The entry above seems to have an 11 year old listed after a 3 year old too.

Which adds to my earlier suggestion that whoever provided the data to the enumerator was a little slapdash.

As we know ages can vary on censuses and often if the exact POB is unknown, the default is the place of residence. Where JB was born was by no stretch of the imagination STGITE. (It was, however, a very close-knit Irish colony where The families of John McCarthy and Margaret Sullivan also lived. It was largely demolished in the late 1870s.)

[MrBarnett]

Hi Debra,

Collingwood Street was just the other side of Brady Street from the Winthrop Street area where the 19/5/52 JEB's extended family had lived and worked as horse slaughterers/butchers for decades.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the t/tt discrepancy. It happens with that (this) name. The fish curer was t in 1891 and tt in 1901.

I think the connection via Daniel to the Hostlers is pretty strong evidence that the OGL man is the right one.

Gary

[Debra A]

The age for Joseph Jr in 1901 is puzzling, but Joseph and Emily's ages and birthplaces and Joseph's occupation are evidence enough.

I think it was deliberate mark that unfortunately added 10 years, Robert. The entry above seems to have an 11 year old listed after a 3 year old too.

[Debra A]

MS
Gary is correct. Going by his father's name and occupation, the Joseph Edward Barnett who was born in Hope Place 19/05/52 married Sarah Hepden in May 1877, his father, also Joseph Edward, was a butcher on the baptism and marriage entry. In 1871 the family were living at 2 Collingwood St BG where JEB Sr was described as a labourer, this same address given on the marriage entry for Joseph Edward Jr and Sarah Hepden in 1877.

I mentioned this couple earlier in the thread; in several 1910-1920 workhouse entries this Jospeph Barnett, fish curer all his life, gave his next of kin as S Barnett and the same couple were definitely still living together at Copley Street in 1911.

[MrBarnett]

Hi MS,

There was a Joseph Edward Barnett (two T's) born on 19/5/52 in North Place, Whitechapel. Is this who are you referring to above?

Gary

If so, I think this may be him in Old Church Road, MEOT in 1901: