Dorset Street

[Allan]

i'm rather new to the ripper case,but after reading over briefly the main details,it occured to me,that after the murder of eddowes,police found blood in a sink of dorset street where the killer had paused to wash his hands,and presumably he was heading back to an area he was comfortable in and quite probably lived in..didn't barnett reside in dorset street or close by at that time?

[The Grave Maurice]

Welcome, Allan. Yes, at the time of the Eddowes murder Barnett was living in Miller's Court, Dorset Street, with MJK. But, as to the "bloody water in the sink" story, so far as I know the only source for that is Major Henry Smith's autobiography, From Constable to Commissioner (1910), and just about everyone agrees that Smith's recollections have to be taken with a very large grain of salt.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Guys,
The 'Take it with a pinch of salt phrase' is used a lot on Casebook,
We tend to cast aside officials of that period such as Major Henry smith, Walter Dew, and Inspector Abberline as nothing more then morons.
Which is perplexing , at least to me.
Walter Dew was not present at Millers court say some, even though he claims to have been
Abberline is not worthy of his rank, as fancy being taken in by Hutchinson and Mrs Maxwell.
Now as for Major Smith, he obviously could not have seen a bloody sink in Dorset street shortly after the Eddowes murder.
As it has quite rightly been pointed out in the past the reference to a Bloody sink was in fact a reference to events of the 9th November when 'The fiend had the audacity to wash his hands in a public sink just yards from the pavement' [ not a exact quote] I arrived in time to see the blood still draining away.
That last observation has led me to believe that the killer had not left millers court that long before the body was discovered and pinpointed a daylight murder.
Regards Richard,

[Carrotty Nell]

Agreed there most probably was no bloody sink on the night of double event. Even if Smith's reference to it were true however it tends to argue AGAINST the murderer living in Dorset Street. It would beggar belief that the killer having escaped from Mitre Square against the odds and evaded God knows how many police patrols/vigilantes in the hour or so before he visited Goulston Street, would return home and wash his bloody hands outside his own house. Whatever else JtR was he was not a complete moron.

[The Grave Maurice]

As it has quite rightly been pointed out in the past the reference to a Bloody sink was in fact a reference to events of the 9th November....

I don't think so, Richard. If you look at the text of chapter 16 of Smith's memoirs, the events he describes begin in the late evening of September 29 and continue until 6:00 a.m. the next morning.

[George Hutchinson]

I don't think it's a case of these detectives being seen as inept. Abberline can be left out from this, but both Dew and Smith published their memoires and both contain assertions from the authors that do not match any other source. They may be right, but it's far more likely they are wrong. When such dubious points are also presented to enhance the reputation of the individual concerned, then that sliver of belief is worn away a little more.

PHILIP

[Hellrider]

Of course it would (to us) seem a foolish thing to do on the Ripper's part to wash his hands in front of his dwellings, BUT 1) he may have been in a frenzy somehow: the killing, the adrenaline etc. 2) I tend to believe the Ghoulston Street graffiti was not left by him (only my personal opinion) and 3) if we believe Smith and he still saw fresh blood in the drain, the police can not have been far behind the Ripper, max. 1 minute. The Ripper doubtlessly knew they were after him and so...where should he run to and hide, if not his home? Another question would be why his paramour Mary Kelly did not connect him with the murder then (such a strange "coincidence" after all to be coming in at such a time hunted by police) or, if she secretly thought he was guilty, what did she do or rathe why didn't she do anything?

[Limehouse]

I personally would not be so quick to dismiss the work of Abberline as he was a very senior investigating officer and in the course of investigating the crimes, he had to plough his way through a great many hoaxes, speculations, quack theories, witnesses - both false and real and an assortment of suspects in various degrees of lunacy and vagrancy. One wonders, when we read McNaghton's list of 'suspects' whether Abberline was even aware of some of them. (For example Druitt??) We don't really know much about the actual investigation as it was carried out at the time and have had to rely on a variety of recollections and memoirs written some time after the events.

As for the blood in the sink - it might be a very good clue - except that we do not know if it actually existed or if it was an embellishment of a policeman's memoirs. Even if it was real, there is no real evidence to suggest it was left there by the killer. As we know, many slaughterhouses were located thereabouts and it was not unusual for men to come home from work (say from Smithfiled Market which was open all night) covered in blood and need to wash off in the nearest yard with a pump before going indoors (do not forget, most dwellings had no running water and residents depended on local pumps for their water.)

Finally, Allan, for a Ripper novice you are making all the right connections. If the blood was found soon after the Eddowes murder, in a street off Dorset Street, it could be a valuable clue, but keeping the above points in mind.

Good luck with your research.

[Hellrider]

of course you are right concerning the blood in the sink, but I think it is in fact also plausible that the Ripper washed his hands there.

[George Hutchinson]

Or, indeed, anywhere else. The sink in Dorset Street was three to four minutes walk north of Goulston Street and there are loads of places he could have stopped.

PHILIP

[Normy]

Hi all
I was wondering if anyone knew exaclty where this close was in relation to
Millers Court. Also if Thomas Bowyer or John McCarthy lived in the court too?

29/30 Sept
'In Dorset Street, with extraordinary audacity, he washed them at a sink up a close, not more than six yards from the street. I arrived there in time to see the blood-stained water.'

Cheers

[DVV]

Hi Normy;
Bowyer stated at the inquest that he was living at 37 Dorset Street.
Mc Carthy, as far as I know, only mentionned his chandler's shop at 27 DS.
As to the story of Smith tracking the murderer, it is no more than an absurd statement (even if he ran down to Dorset Street and see some blood in a sink, how could he know that was the murderer's blood? Moreover, this could only happen quite a long time after the murder...)

Amitiés,
David

[Normy]

Hi David
Thanks for the reply.
I re-read the snippet from his memoirs and he doesn't say why he'd gone to Dorset st (at some speed) if he thinks he saw the killers bloody evidence. And as this was first published in 1910 I guess he was just making it seem as if he was hot on the heels.
Shame about the blood really, it would be very convenient if it lead to Dorset st. Still I guess there's a lot of 'if onlys' with this case.

Cheers

[DVV]

Hi Normy,
If ever he went to Dorset Street, that was certainly because police made searches in houses and doss houses after the murder, I suppose.
Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Normy,
If ever he went to Dorset Street, that was certainly because police made searches in houses and doss houses after the murder, I suppose.

Major Smith was of the City Police. Dorset Street was firmly in the Metropolitan Police area. The City Police would almost certainly not have been involved in house-to-house searches within Metropolitan Police territory.