the key

[Rubyretro]

maybe he snap-ped ?

[Heinrich]

I think "controlling" is something very different from "I don't want your scuzzy hooker friends in my house, Mary, and I also don't want you selling your body to other men." ...

Calling Mary Kelly and her friends "scuzzy hooker friends" are your words, Ausgirl, and might well correlate Joseph Barnett's attitude.

....
If you had a girlfriend that you lived with, loved, and wished to marry, don't you think that you'd object if she chose to consort with hookers and to prostitute herself?

Not had I met her as one of her customers in the first place, Archaic.

I think it's remarkable that Joe loved Mary enough to forgive her rather sordid past. How many other men would do so?

I was never appropriate for Joseph Barnett to be so judgmental about Mary Kelly nor did she need his forgiveness for the choices she made.

I also think it's perfectly reasonable of him to wish that Mary would straighten out and show some self-respect rather than fall back into prostitution and the low lifestyle that went with it.

It would have been more fitting for him to get his own life in order having got himself sacked, losing his porter's license and finding himself broke.

Yet after she did fall back into it, Joe still cared enough to come round to check on her and to give her money if he could.

According to Joseph Barnett himself, he did not visit Mary Kelly on the night of her murder to give her money. He had something else on his mind.

How many men would show such devotion under the circumstances?

But for Joseph Barnett's attention, Mary Kelly might have been spared a most brutal fate.

Would you be less suspicious of Joe if he didn't care whether Mary went out whoring or not? If your answer is Yes, then that makes absolutely no sense to me.

There is no evidence to suggest that Joseph Barnett cherished Mary Kelly in the way you imagine, Archaic.

Hmmm....so Barnett has a blazing row with Kelly, quits his lodgings, continues to visit her from time to time, including the last evening of her life, then goes back to his new lodgings, plays cards, and then goes back to Miller's Court in the middle of the night and butchers her. I wonder why his mood suddenly changed?

Joseph Barnett admits to being the last person seen in Mary Kelly company on the night of her murder. It is probable he killed her before returning to his own lodging to play cards or sleep or whatever. It is not necessary to assume Joseph Barnett changed his mood. For some time he had been quarreling with Mary Kelly about her friends and lifestyle. As far as his mood went, there was never a time when he did not want to possess her entirely for himself.

[Rubyretro]

Joseph Barnett admits to being the last person seen in Mary Kelly company on the night of her murder.

Oh ?
I thought that Blotchy was definitely the last man known to have been in her company?
Hutchinson says that he spoke to her..he might or might not have done.
Astrakhan Man -were he to have existed- would be the candidate for 'last person' seen in her company on the night of her death.

I'm not even counting the 'market trader' mooted as a suspect
by people like Richard who believe that she died the next morning.

By the way sometimes I'd love to know more about the real people behind these posts on Casebook : You come over over to me as someone far more judgemental and inflexible -dare I say "controlling" ?- than Joe Barnett. You don't seem to have much empathy when considering the lives of these real -if long dead- human beings. And no sense of humour.

I mention "controlling" because you seem to object to Joe having any 'right' to tell Mary what he wanted from their relationship, and no rights to part on amicable terms.

Since I disagree with you, I'd be quite worried about you if I thought that you lived around the corner from me...

[curious]

Oh ?


Since I disagree with you, I'd be quite worried about you if I thought that you lived around the corner from me...

I've thought this for some time now, myself.

And you're wasting your energy trying to have this discussion with him – He just digs his heels in deeper.

[Robert]

I think what Heinrich means is, Barnett admits to being the last murderer seen with Kelly on the night of her murder.

Things look pretty black for Barnett!

[Fisherman]

Robert:

"Things look pretty black for Barnett!"

Every cloud has a silver lining, Robert - Heinrich COULD have opted for Hutchinson too ... Brrrrr!!!!!!!!!

The best,
Fisherman

[Robert]

Fisherman, Heinrich isn't going to go for Hutchinson when he has Barnett, the Napoleon of crime, the organizer of half that is evil and nearly all that is undetected in London.

[Fisherman]

Joe M Barnett? As in Joe Moriarty...?

You are probably right then, Robert - Hutch the mad serial killer can´t match that.

Fisherman
in awe

[The Good Michael]

You are probably right then, Robert - Hutch the mad serial killer can´t match that.

Uh, that was Hutch the CEREAL killer. Two boxes of Frosted Flakes every day and a bowl of Cap'n Crunch as a bedtime snack. His only crime was he became too regular after so much roughage.

Mike

[Sally]

Barnett, the Napoleon of crime

I thought that was Macavity. Barnett the Mystery Cat?

[The Good Michael]

Nonsense alert! http://jtrslondon.wordpress.com/2009...iller-or-both/

[Robert]

Ah but Sally, Macavity, unlike Barnett, was finally caught - by T.S. Eliot Ness, if memory serves.

[The Grave Maurice]

And he had friends with political influence, like Andrew Lloyd George.

[Heinrich]

Oh ?
I thought that Blotchy was definitely the last man known to have been in her company?
Hutchinson says that he spoke to her..he might or might not have done.
Astrakhan Man -were he to have existed- would be the candidate for 'last person' seen in her company on the night of her death.

I'm not even counting the 'market trader' mooted as a suspect
by people like Richard who believe that she died the next morning.

None of these admit to being the last person seen with Mary Kelly on the night of her murder, Rubyretro.

You come over over to me as someone far more judgemental and inflexible -dare I say "controlling" ?- than Joe Barnett.

I judge the evidence, Rubyretro, and I am not averse to coming to a logical conclusion. I cannot, nor would I attempt to, control anyone else who choses not to be persuaded by the evidence alone.

You don't seem to have much empathy when considering the lives of these real -if long dead- human beings.

I have nothing but sympathy for poor Mary Kelly as all my posts show.

And no sense of humour.

Forgive me for not joining-in with the adolescent banter but, in fairness, I think my remark about you becoming a novelist is not without wit.

I mention "controlling" because you seem to object to Joe having any 'right' to tell Mary what he wanted from their relationship, and no rights to part on amicable terms.

Joseph Barnett was in the habit of telling Mary Kelly what she should not be doing which is a definition of a controlling personality. Neither do I believe they parted on amicable terms no more than Joseph Barnett's characterization of their rows always ending on such good terms.

Since I disagree with you, I'd be quite worried about you if I thought that you lived around the corner from me...

Surely you would not want to do me harm because we differ on the evidence against Joseph Barnett

I've thought this for some time now, myself.
And you're wasting your energy trying to have this discussion with him – He just digs his heels in deeper.

Stop thinking about me, Curious.

I think what Heinrich means is, Barnett admits to being the last murderer seen with Kelly on the night of her murder.
Things look pretty black for Barnett!

Quite so, Robert.

Nonsense alert! http://jtrslondon.wordpress.com/2009...iller-or-both/

This is a brilliant piece of writing and well worth anyone's attention, The Good Michael.

[Robert]

Let's get this sorted out now.

"Joseph Barnett admits to being the last person seen in Mary Kelly company on the night of her murder."

He admitted nothing of the kind.