Barnett's Brother

[Blues]

I was curious -

Does anyone have a physical description of Barnett's brother? He was definitely there the night of MJK's murder...probably trying to get her to take Joey back after their "discussion" earlier. I am truly curious to see if he fits the description of the "Irish" guy who was looking around for Lusk and/or if he fits the "accomplice" description of the "second" man during the Stride murder etc. Who better to help you do all of this than your brother?

Thanks in advance for any help/info!

Blues

[richardnunweek]

Hi Blues,
Unfortunately we have no ID of Joseph Barnetts brother Dan, like you I would not leave him out of the picture, he was seen with the deseased a few hours before she was killed, also he resided at the 'Victoria home' along with famous witness [ Or infamous] George Hutchinson, and a ex of Mary Kellys Joseph Flemming.
We also have [ if Paul Harrison was being honest] a meeting with a relation of joseph Barnetts in a public house, and he came out with a strange story.
He heard a conversation with Barnett saying' I always felt sorry for her killer, for he could not come forward for fear of being topped'.
Could he have known her killer?
Regards Richard.

[Jon Guy]

Hello

Under the Dissertations menu there used to be one titled (I think) "Hey Joe your porter story sounds fishy" by the Viper - I cannot see it there now ???

Anyway, in this work there are details of the Barnetts fish porter licences which include the height, complexion and eye colour.

From memory I recall the heights were given as around 5 foot 8 or 9.

If no-one can confirm today I will have a look when i`m home.

[Blues]

Thanks Richard and Jon - I appreciate the responses. Would like to hear the whole of Harrison's story sometime...

Thanks again,

Blues

[Jon Guy]

The Viper

Hello Blues

The following details of the Barnett Bros. were found by The Viper for his dissertation : "Hey Joe! Your Porter Story Sounds Fishy".

The details were gleaned from the Billingsgate Market Porters Licences in the Guildhall.

Denis Barnet - 40 yrs - 5 foot 6 and a half - fair complexion

Daniel Barnet - 36 yrs - 5 foot 4 and a half - fair hair. Brown eyes. Dark complexion.

Joseph Barnett - 30 yrs - 5 foot 7. fair complexion. Blue eyes.

John Barnett - 28 yrs - 5 foot 4. Fair complexion.

Hope this of help

[Suzi]

Hmmmmmm

Hi all-
Have just checked my 'Harrison'- nothing sensible there re 'Daniel' the mystery 'brother'.'

Taking a look then at the A-Z under Joseph it does say (tantalisingly) that he ....
"when licensed to work at Billingsgate Fish Market was nicknamed "Danny" according to a Press report"- Press Association report 10 November 1888 .

Maurice Lewis also seems to go along with the idea that Danny was Joe's nickname , when he said that he saw MJK drinking with 'Danny' and 'Julia' in The Horn of Plenty on the night of the murder.
As the A-Z goes on to say ' Since 'Danny' was said to be Joe Barnett's nickname and he had left Mary Kelly rather than have 'Julia' live with them,the group poses the question whether Lewis correctly identified Barnett and Kelly,or whether Danny was really Barnett's nickname'

Interesting- and if it was said nickname-- Why- where did that one come from??? OK we all know odd and various nicknames that at first look don't bear any resemblance to their name but Danny is an odd one.............Boy??


Suz x

[Jon Guy]

Hello Suzi

Thats interesting. I thought there were just the two bruvvas, Danny and Joe.

Unfortunately, the said dissertation no longer appears under the dissertation menu, the one I used I printed of last year.

It definately, has details of four brothers.

[Suzi]

Hi Jon-
I looked it up too and Yes it's gone! I too thought there was a brother Daniel too- Hmmmmmmmmm odd

Suz xx
Right just looked up some more- Barnett's father died in 1864,Mother left soon after- leaving young (!) Joe to be brought up by his older brothers Daniel! Denis and sister Catherine

What happened to D and D (and C too)- come in Chris Scott!!!

[Jon Guy]

Right just looked up some more- Barnett's father died in 1864,Mother left soon after- leaving young (!) Joe to be brought up by his older brothers Daniel! Denis and sister Catherine

That`ll be right, John Barnett was the youngest brother.

[Suzi]

John younger than Joe?

[Jon Guy]

Aye, he was two years younger ( I have put the brothers 1888 ages against their details on a previous post )

[Suzi]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm thanks Jon-
Be interesting to the see the census there

[miss marple]

Bruce Paley did some research on the family but he got some dates wrong, and could not trace some, this was before internet days,
This is the more updated tree.
John Barnett M Catherine Hayes
1849 Dennis born Kent
1852 Catherine born Whitechapel
1853 Daniel Born Whitechapel
1858 Joseph Born Whitechapel
1859 John Born Whitechapel
1864 John [ FATHER ] dies
1869 Dennis married Mary Ann Garrett
1871 Catherine married Joseph Beer
1906 Daniel dies. There is still some confusion about Daniel's age, which can only be rectified by the actual birth and death certs.As he seems to be older than the license states. And in the 1881 census he is living at 9 Aldred St Bermondsey and is described as a fish porter age 28.
Miss Marple

[Jon Guy]

Excellent. Thanks Miss M.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
With reference to Daniel Barnett, the one we are looking for died in 1906 aged 57 years, which puts his birth at 1849, which incidently makes him 39 years at the time of the murders.
No I mus'nt.
can't resist what if he was the Ripper?
first victim Tabram.
The same age 39, stabbed 39 times, followed by all the coincedences throughout that autumn showing that pattern, not to mention his place of residence throughout that period,ie. 39-41 Commercial street[ Victoria home],
And the witness reports that he was seen drinking with Kelly on the evening of the 8th.
Motive.
No idea, proberly just a hatred of street women.
Why Kelly.
Because she wronged his brother?
All fantasy of course , however, I believe that numerology exists in the Ripper case, either in a sick killers mind, or Black magic ritual.
Regards Richard.