Suspect Witnesses?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Here's a little curve ball...

Don't you think the story is curvy enough as it is?

What if the story reported and subsequently printed in the English press (the Star) just a few hours after the murder, that related to a person having seen what they thought was a domestic... wasn't Schwartz, but instead....

was Pipeman?

I'm sure I read somewhere about Pipeman having been ruled out by the police?

What if Pipeman (and not Schwartz) was the person who went to the police or to the Star, and reported they had seen a domestic assault?

That would negate the need for the inevitable time delay in finding a translator.

Just a thought

The following is a marginal note by someone from the Home Office, written in Swanson's October 19 dated report.

This is rather confused: If the man whom the P.C. saw is not the same as the man whom Schwartz saw at 12.45 then it is clearly more probable that the man whom Schwartz saw was the murderer, because Schwartz saw his man a quarter of an hour later than the P.C. But I understand the Inspector to suggest that Schwartz’ man need not have been the murderer. True only 15 minutes elapsed between 12.45 when Schwartz saw the man & 1.0 when the woman was found murdered on the same spot. But the suggestion is that Schwartz’ man may have left her, she being a prostitute then accosted or was accosted by another man, & there was time enough for this to take place & for this other man to murder her before 1.0. The Police apparently do not suspect the 2nd man whom Schwartz saw on the other side of the street & who followed Schwartz.

Presumably, 3 weeks after the murder, the anonymous second man has not been identified. Why couldn't the police find him? The contrast of this with Wess's comments to the Echo reporter - who claimed to have been told the name of the pursuing man - is extraordinary.

[The Rookie Detective]

Does one of the other possibilities have anything to do with Woolf Wess?


A MAN PURSUED. - SAID TO BE THE MURDERER.

In the course of conversation (says the journalist) the secretary mentioned the fact that the murderer had no doubt been disturbed in his work, as about a quarter to one o'clock on Sunday morning he was seen- or, at least, a man whom the public prefer to regard as the murderer- being chased by another man along Fairclough-street, which runs across Berner-street close to the Club, and which is intersected on the right by Providence-street, Brunswick-street, and Christian-st., and on the left by Batty-street and Grove-street, the two latter running up into Commercial-road. The man pursued escaped, however, and the secretary of the Club cannot remember the name of the man who gave chase, but he is not a member of their body. Complaint is also made about the difficulty there was experienced in obtaining a policeman, and it is alleged that from the time the body was discovered fifteen minutes had elapsed before a constable could be called from Commercial-road. This charge against the police, however, requires confirmation. There is, notwithstanding the number who have visited the scene, a complete absence of excitement, although naturally this fresh addition to the already formidable list of mysterious murders forms the general subject of conversation.

Eerily similar to Schwartz being allegedly followed by Pipe man...

...but from a 3rd party observing Pipeman chasing Schwartz.

[seanr]

Does one of the other possibilities have anything to do with Woolf Wess?

Yes, the other two possibilities I had in mind as an alternative answer to the question 'who heard Schwartz story first - the Press or the Police?' is the members of the club or Schhwartz's employer heard it first before both Press and Police. Either the club or Schwartz's employer would have been able to provide an English speaker who could have interprepted on Schwartz's behalf.

A MAN PURSUED. - SAID TO BE THE MURDERER.

In the course of conversation (says the journalist) the secretary mentioned the fact that the murderer had no doubt been disturbed in his work, as about a quarter to one o'clock on Sunday morning he was seen- or, at least, a man whom the public prefer to regard as the murderer- being chased by another man along Fairclough-street, which runs across Berner-street close to the Club, and which is intersected on the right by Providence-street, Brunswick-street, and Christian-st., and on the left by Batty-street and Grove-street, the two latter running up into Commercial-road. The man pursued escaped, however, and the secretary of the Club cannot remember the name of the man who gave chase, but he is not a member of their body. Complaint is also made about the difficulty there was experienced in obtaining a policeman, and it is alleged that from the time the body was discovered fifteen minutes had elapsed before a constable could be called from Commercial-road. This charge against the police, however, requires confirmation. There is, notwithstanding the number who have visited the scene, a complete absence of excitement, although naturally this fresh addition to the already formidable list of mysterious murders forms the general subject of conversation.

That's interesting, the story of a man chased was talked about in the neighbourhood and they thought he was the murderer. So there was a rumour that might have led Schwartz to come forward, as he was thought to be the murderer.

'cannot remember the name' suggests he had once known the man's name. You'd think under the circumstances it'd have been possible to make enquiries as to who knew him and eventually find out the name.

[seanr]

Don't you think the story is curvy enough as it is?



The following is a marginal note by someone from the Home Office, written in Swanson's October 19 dated report.

This is rather confused: If the man whom the P.C. saw is not the same as the man whom Schwartz saw at 12.45 then it is clearly more probable that the man whom Schwartz saw was the murderer, because Schwartz saw his man a quarter of an hour later than the P.C. But I understand the Inspector to suggest that Schwartz’ man need not have been the murderer. True only 15 minutes elapsed between 12.45 when Schwartz saw the man & 1.0 when the woman was found murdered on the same spot. But the suggestion is that Schwartz’ man may have left her, she being a prostitute then accosted or was accosted by another man, & there was time enough for this to take place & for this other man to murder her before 1.0. The Police apparently do not suspect the 2nd man whom Schwartz saw on the other side of the street & who followed Schwartz.

Presumably, 3 weeks after the murder, the anonymous second man has not been identified. Why couldn't the police find him? The contrast of this with Wess's comments to the Echo reporter - who claimed to have been told the name of the pursuing man - is extraordinary.

Either he has been found and named OR they have declined to name him in official documentation. It's a bit strange not to suspect him if you have no idea who he is.

You'd think they want to find him and rule him out of having a connection, over deciding not to suspect an unidentified man on a hunch.