Conspiracy to suppress the identity of JTR?

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Michael,

But knew him how is the question? It could have been somebody she met just a few days prior.

c.d.

I think cd that we have a situation where its most probable that Mary knew this person well, and that she probably knew him when Barnett still lived there. The scene...Mary in her tiny room, still drunk or starting her hangover, undressed, and in the middle of the night...hardly the time anyone would entertain someone she didn't know very well. We do not have a report of Mary entering that room with any man aside from Blotchy since Joe left...unless you want to include Hutchinsons man, so having a man in that room at that time of night under those circumstances is relevant to the question of her knowing the person.

[mpriestnall]

To cover some vast conspiracy no, to cover up a bit of incompetence here and there maybe? Has there ever been an example of the case of another serial killer that has had wild conspiracies linked to it, involving cover ups or famous people? Certainly cannot think of one?

Tristan

Hi Tristan,

What you say is very reasonable and plausible.

I think most people think like you that "there's nothing to see here, move along".

Some don't, like me.

BTW my views expressed here on CB are, for the best part, based on my research into my own candidate.

regards,

Martyn

[Losmandris]

To cover some vast conspiracy no, to cover up a bit of incompetence here and there maybe? Has there ever been an example of the case of another serial killer that has had wild conspiracies linked to it, involving cover ups or famous people? Certainly cannot think of one?

Tristan

[c.d.]

I think that there were a couple of men that Fall that were glad to have this mad killer at large to take the blame. The men at the International Club for one. One wonders whether the effort to make Mary Jane Kelly almost unrecognizable to even her recent live in might be something to consider here.

Hello Michael,

But this "mad killer at large" was unidentified and therefore could have been anyone including the men at The International Club.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hi c.d.,

Provide incontrovertible evidence that the Millers Court victim was a prostitute, and I'll treat you to a bottle of your favourite tipple.

The police didn't want to discourage the public from spreading rumors about Jack.

In fact, the more the merrier. Which is why, seven years later, the mystery trundled on.

Regards,

Simon

Hello Simon,

Well, let me turn it around and ask you what evidence you would accept? You say "Millers Court victim." Are you describing someone other than Mary Kelly?

c.d.

[c.d.]

exactly harry
the facial mutilations of eddowes, Kelly and the head from the Tottenham torso (very similar to eddowes) was due to the killers own sick fantasy and had nothing to do with trying to hide the identity. and the idea that a killer would try to hide the id of a victim he killed in her own house by mutilating her face is patently ridiculous.

Harry D and Abby,

Agree completely.

c.d.

[c.d.]

That last point ties in with the fact that this killer almost certainly knew his victim beforehand. That's not in the evidence with either Polly or Annie. Marys killer was in her room, while she was either still drunk or hungover, undressed, in the middle of the night, and was allowed to remain there. She fell asleep....and the rest is history.

Hello Michael,

But knew him how is the question? It could have been somebody she met just a few days prior.

c.d.

[mpriestnall]

exactly harry
the facial mutilations of eddowes, Kelly and the head from the Tottenham torso (very similar to eddowes) was due to the killers own sick fantasy and had nothing to do with trying to hide the identity. and the idea that a killer would try to hide the id of a victim he killed in her own house by mutilating her face is patently ridiculous.

Hi Abby,

Why patently ridiculous? Do you think Kelly was living at Millers Court under her real name? If not, other than her face to potentially identify her, what else was there to definitely to identify her? As far as we know, no letters or similar were left behind.

Martyn

[Harry D]

That last point ties in with the fact that this killer almost certainly knew his victim beforehand. That's not in the evidence with either Polly or Annie. Marys killer was in her room, while she was either still drunk or hungover, undressed, in the middle of the night, and was allowed to remain there. She fell asleep....and the rest is history.

That doesn't prove they had separate killers. Isn't it possible that the same man who killed Polly, Annie etc. also knew MJK?

[Michael W Richards]

For one, Mary Kelly was killed in her own bed in her own room, as opposed to outside. Who else would they expect to find there? Her absence would've soon been noted. If the plan was to destroy any positive ID, why did the killer waste time butchering the rest of her? Why not simply chop her head off and take it with him? Why take the heart of all things?

That last point ties in with the fact that this killer almost certainly knew his victim beforehand. That's not in the evidence with either Polly or Annie. Marys killer was in her room, while she was either still drunk or hungover, undressed, in the middle of the night, and was allowed to remain there. She fell asleep....and the rest is history.

[Michael W Richards]

Of course, but it sets a precedent for facial mutilations in this series, which was escalated in Miller's Court.

Kates face was cut, Marys was slashed. Inherently different actions taken. And I personally agree that the nose and the chevrons were intentional and separately made.

[mpriestnall]

Why did he kill any of the victims in a such brutal way, multiliating them as he did. Why not just cut their throats and leave it there?

Destroying MJK's face to inhibit identification wasn't necessarily an was act that mutually exclusive with additionally butchering her.

Maybe the authorities already had a good idea who JTR was by the 9th of November, so JTR was limiting the opportunity to identifying himself further with MJK's murder by destroying her face.

Martyn

[Abby Normal]

For one, Mary Kelly was killed in her own bed in her own room, as opposed to outside. Who else would they expect to find there? Her absence would've soon been noted. If the plan was to destroy any positive ID, why did the killer waste time butchering the rest of her? Why not simply chop her head off and take it with him? Why take the heart of all things?

exactly harry
the facial mutilations of eddowes, Kelly and the head from the Tottenham torso (very similar to eddowes) was due to the killers own sick fantasy and had nothing to do with trying to hide the identity. and the idea that a killer would try to hide the id of a victim he killed in her own house by mutilating her face is patently ridiculous.

[Harry D]

Understand what you're saying, but like Michael said, the extent of mutilations was different, so the purpose might be different?

The two shaped nicks, for example, were possibly meant to be symbolic rather than face destroying mutiliations.

Martyn

For one, Mary Kelly was killed in her own bed in her own room, as opposed to outside. Who else would they expect to find there? Her absence would've soon been noted. If the plan was to destroy any positive ID, why did the killer waste time butchering the rest of her? Why not simply chop her head off and take it with him? Why take the heart of all things?

[mpriestnall]

This might have carried more weight if Eddowes' face hadn't been mutilated too.

Understand what you're saying, but like Michael said, the extent of mutilations was different, so the purpose might be different?

The two shaped nicks, for example, were possibly meant to be symbolic rather than face destroying mutiliations.

Martyn