Miller's Court - The Fire

[c.d.]

Could he have had medical knowlege and thought that heat might speed up the process of Rigor Mortis therefor confusing the time of death?

Pat...

Entirely possible but my guess is that he didn't give a rat's behind about the TOD.

c.d.

[Pierre]

I've always had 'issues' with how well Jackie Boy (or girl) was able to perform his deeds in such darkened conditions with such speed. Of course we are led to believe he really went to town in Miller's Court and I presume the 'illumination' from the fire helped.

My question is how bright would the fire have been? Would it still have been enough (with a candle perhaps) to see well enough? (The photos tell us it was.)

Just I struggle getting up in the night to go to the loo without kicking the cat etc... how did JtR manage in such gloomy conditions?

He might have been used to darkness.

Regards, Pierre

[Rosella]

Of course, Londoners in those days would have been used to pea soupers, gas lights not shedding much light, a sort of miasma over everything because of particles of whatever in the atmosphere at all hours, anyway. Their eyes would have adjusted to it.

I still come back to my old perennial. If Mary lit a fire for her clients, for Blotchy for instance, what did she use for fuel? Admittedly she could have pinched some kindling from somewhere and had the fire ready laid, but you can't produce lumps of coal or logs out of thin air. Somehow I don't think Mary had a coal or wood merchant on call. As she presumably didn't intend to use her client's clothing or her own as fuel, it remains a mystery.

[Robert St Devil]

Hi Ros.

Mary Ann Cox said there was a ,,light,, from the room and the blinds were down, which challenges the room with a view angle. She herself is returning to warm her hands, so it,s possible Mary Jane had a similar fire going. Would a candle have been sufficient for the murder? I don,t think it,s out of the question, considering it may have been set on the bedside table. {Aside: was the red pelerine accounted?}

[c.d.]

Hello Rosella,

That's a good point. I wonder if Blotchy could have brought some coal with him.

c.d.

[GUT]

Hello Rosella,

That's a good point. I wonder if Blotchy could have brought some coal with him.

c.d.

In his bucket

[c.d.]

Hello GUT,

Yes, that thought did cross my mind. I mean we assume it was beer. Never having started a coal fire I don't know how much you need. Could he have carried it in his pocket? Maybe a few pieces to add to what Mary had on hand?

c.d.

[GUT]

Hello GUT,

Yes, that thought did cross my mind. I mean we assume it was beer. Never having started a coal fire I don't know how much you need. Could he have carried it in his pocket? Maybe a few pieces to add to what Mary had on hand?

c.d.

Doubt he'd get much of a fire with what he could carry in his pockets, unless he had big pockets and I guess that's not out of the question.

I know in war years with rationing on miners would bring a Billy full home after a shift.

[DJA]

Doubt he'd get much of a fire with what he could carry in his pockets, unless he had big pockets and I guess that's not out of the question.

I know in war years with rationing on miners would bring a Billy full home after a shift.

Someone possibly purchased a sack of coal from the merchant at 39 Dorset Street.

A Victorian fireplace like that only holds so much fuel at any time.

Abberline mentioned the room was still warm after the forced entry.

[GUT]

Someone possibly purchased a sack of coal from the merchant at 39 Dorset Street.

A Victorian fireplace like that only holds so much fuel at any time.

Abberline mentioned the room was still warm after the forced entry.

I wouldn't be surprised if McCarthy bought a sack and sold it by the scoop.

And I agree that the fireplace probably didn't take a lot of coal at a time.

[Rosella]

Sold it by the scoop! Knowing him it would have been 9/10th coal dust and two small lumps. It would have had to have been 1/2 penny's worth. What with food, drink, coal and halfpenny candles, Mary's fee of sixpence a pop would have been gone before they handed it over.

[GUT]

Sold it by the scoop! Knowing him it would have been 9/10th coal dust and two small lumps. It would have had to have been 1/2 penny's worth. What with food, drink, coal and halfpenny candles, Mary's fee of sixpence a pop would have been gone before they handed it over.

Agreed.

He seems to have liked a quid

[Geddy2112]

Really hope Mary did not sell herself for some coal

[Joshua Rogan]

Would a candle have been sufficient for the murder? I don,t think it,s out of the question, considering it may have been set on the bedside table

Yes, I think so. At least, according to my experiments in a darkened room with a tealight. Although feeble by modern lighting standards, once your eyes adjust it's surprising how much can be accomplished with just a candle for illumination, although it would have to be positioned/held fairly close to the bed.

[John G]

Eddowes was killed in a darkened square where the killer would be presumably under much greater time pressure than in the case of an indoor murder, and yet significantly, if not substantially, more skill was demonstrated than in the case of Kelly.