The broken window

[David Orsam]

Interesting, but it wouldn't stand a chance in a court of law.

If you are saying that - in the absence of any other candidates - a court of law would not conclude on the balance of probability that the 'Dr Gale' being referred to in the Birmingham Daily Post was Dr Gabe, then I respectfully disagree.

[Simon Wood]

Hi DJA,

Annie Chapman's medications apparently came from St. Bartholomew's Hospital—

Morning Advertiser, 10th September 1888—

“Timothy Donovan, deputy at the lodging house, 35 Dorset Street, stated that after the deceased left on Monday last he found two large bottles in the room, one containing medicine, and labelled as follows: ‘St. Bartholomew’s Hospital. Take two tablespoonfuls three times a day.’ The other bottle contained a milky lotion, and was labelled ‘St. Bartholomew’s Hospital. The lotion. Poison.’ This confirmed her statement that she had been under medical treatment.”

St. Bartholomew’s did not supply medicine bottles free of charge. Patients brought their own, or bought one from an itinerant bottle-seller outside the hospital.

Hi David,

Interesting, but it wouldn't stand a chance in a court of law.

Now, you would really be onto something if you could place Dr. John Rees Gabe, General Practitioner and Surgeon, at the London Dispensary, 21 Church Street, Spitalfields, on the morning of Friday 9th November 1888.

I mention this because a surgeon was in attendance at the London Dispensary on Wednesdays and Saturdays at 1.00 pm.

Regards,

Simon

[DJA]

What I'm wondering - and I don't know if it's a leap of logic - is whether Dr Gabe retained a link with the London Dispensary, just around the corner from Dorset Street, during 1888. Is it possible that he could have held a surgery there one day a week? Perhaps every Friday?

If so,might have been the source of Annie Chapman's medications.

[David Orsam]

Now here's something rather interesting. One might even describe it as a "scrap" of supporting evidence.

Dr Gabe is mistakenly referred to, on occasion, in the newspapers as "Dr Gale". I offer three examples:

1. London Evening Standard of 17 January 1889

"James and Kate Burgoyne, husband and wife, said to be people of means, of 1, Crowland-terrace, Church-road, Islington, were brought up, on an adjourned summons, charging them with cruelty and neglect towards the illegitimate child of the male Defendant....Thereupon the Society for the Protection of Children took up the prosecution, and called their own medical officer (Dr. Gale) as well as Dr. Gray to prove that the child was a stunted little thing, and bore many marks of ill-usage".

2. Pall Mall Gazette of 11 June 1889:

"Frederick Francis was summoned by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children at the Thames police-court for violently assaulting his step son, John Arthur Owen, aged twelve. Dr. Gale, who examined the boy, found that he was suffering from 41 bruises about the body."

3. Same hearing reported by the London Evening Standard of 10 June 1889:

"Dr. Gale of Meklenburgh Square, examined the child, and found him suffering from about forty-one bruises about the body, which had probably been inflicted at different times."

There can be no doubt that these references to 'Dr Gale' were references to Dr John Rees Gabe.

Why do I say this is interesting? Well, here's the thing...

The following is from the Birmingham Daily Post of 27 December 1887:

'While Dr. Gale was attending a patient in an epileptic fit at the London Dispensary, Church Street, Spitalfields, an old man named Joseph Farrant made the remark, "These fits are dreadful things; you never know how they end;" and he had no sooner uttered the words than he expired. The deceased was an out-patient, and his immediate death after the remark created great excitement among the other patients who were waiting for Dr. Gale's advice."

If, as I believe to be the case, the 'Dr Gale' referred to in the Birmingham Daily Post report was, in fact, Dr Gabe then it puts a whole new light on the matter and would show that Dr Gabe continued to treat patients at the London Dispensary in Spitalfields, just around the corner from where Mary Jane Kelly lived, long after he moved to Mecklenburgh Square and started working for the Society of Prevention For Cruelty to Children.

[Simon Wood]

Top of the Morning to you, Roy,

What I find baffling is this reluctance to believe that Dr. Gabe was acting in his official SPCC capacity at Millers Court.

Just because we have not yet located the boy does not mean he did not exist. There's plenty of people in the Ripper extravaganza we have yet to find.

Gabe's connection with the London Dispensary at 21 Church Street ended in 1884 with the birth of his second daughter, Winifred Agnes, and the founding in that year of the London Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children. This was when he moved to Mecklenburgh Square.

The Times, March 29th 1888—

"Dr. John Rees Gabe, of Mecklenburgh Square," is reported as surgeon to the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children at 7 Harpur Street.

I don't understand why anyone thinks it plausible that he just happened to be at the London Dispensary on the morning of Friday 9th November 1888.

A scrap of supporting evidence might be nice.

Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

Good evening Simon,


Okay, let's say she did have a son, a fact known immediately and with certainty enough to call the special doctor from the SPCC. In that case, I'm surprised none of the inquest witnesses associated with Miller's Court said anything about the victim's son. Barnett, Bowyer, McCarthy, Prater, Lewis, Ventury and Harvey. A small boy in a court would make his presence known. No one said ' we thought of the boy' his safety, his welfare. Where was the poor dear.' Or anything like that.....


Roy

Hello Roy,

I think we can easily put this in the same bracket as Hutchinson.
Nobody, not one of Kelly's drinking pals, neighbours, her landlord, her rent collector... nobody ever commented on George Hutchinson at all.

Now women talk about men. Especially in pubs. Men that are interested in them, men that are trying to get closer...men that are friends.. men that hang around with a woman, men who claim to have known a woman for 3 years.

Yet not one person has ever commented on the infamous George Hutchinson.
You would have thought, with all the tittle tattle going on in Dorset Street after the murder.. one or another journalist would have found someone who knew the bloke.. or even knew of him... but no.. not one comment. And that guy is very very central in all of this. Not just a rumour of a child. And the place was swarming with journalists still.

Thats why I put the reason you wrote above into the same bracket. Whats good for the goose...



Phil

[Debra A]

Hi Debs
Does William vanish for good or can he be found in the 1891 census?

There was one that looked possible in 1891 but the entry was mistranscribed in the index and the mother's name was not Maria on the original entry as it was in the index.
John was sent to a Roman Catholic School at Leyton.

[packers stem]

John appears afterwards as a young boy alone in workhouse records around 1890 but William doesn't. Maria was in the Infirmary around this time.

Hi Debs
Does William vanish for good or can he be found in the 1891 census?

[Roy Corduroy]

Top of the morning to you Simon,

I thought I answered, with straightforward reasons, the exact question you posed - Why was a doctor from the SPCC there?

Delete the word son. A boy in Mary Kelly's care. Dr. Gabe responded to the report of a child, either a known fact or rumor. No matter, he came. Or acting as a general welfare check on any and all children who might be in Miller's Court. No unnanouced or casual reasons. Real reasons.

If however, he was not acting in his capacity of the SPCC, then maybe David's educated guess works instead. Dr. Gabe was right around the corner at the Dispensary and when he heard, he came. Because he is a doctor. Or a policeman summoned him.

As compared to the other murders, all nighttime events, this murder was discovered in broad daylight, which may be a factor in the number of doctors responding.

Roy

[Debra A]

John appears afterwards as a young boy alone in workhouse records around 1890 but William doesn't. Maria was in the Infirmary around this time.

[Debra A]

Yes, John was born 1882 and was the oldest. His brother William was born in 1884. Their mother, Maria was born 1855 and was described as a destitute washerwoman and was a Roman Catholic.

[Debra A]

Was one of them six year old John Harvey, who was taken to the London Hospital on June 2nd 1888, after being run over by a cart in Commercial St? He, and presumably his family, were living at 2 Dorset Court, Dorset St at the time.

One of them was called John, Rosella - the other was William. I would need to check my notes to see who was the oldest. The only address I could see connected to them in 1887 was 18 ?? (possibly Station) Place. They were in Raine St workhouse after coming from the casual ward.

[Rosella]

Was one of them six year old John Harvey, who was taken to the London Hospital on June 2nd 1888, after being run over by a cart in Commercial St? He, and presumably his family, were living at 2 Dorset Court, Dorset St at the time.

[Debra A]

One of the women I looked at in the past as a possible for the Maria Harvey who stayed with MJK was a destitute, unmarried washerwoman with two boys who who were b 1882 and 1884 meaning the older one would have been about 6 or 7 in Nov 1888.

[Robert]

If any of Mary's friends from the Court or nearby did have a child, I'm sure that Mary would have helped look after him from time to time. This is what women do for each other. But as for Mary having a child of her own, nope.