How easy was it to disappear?

[Rosella]

When Jack heard Diemschutz's pony and cart approaching it's my guess that he retreated back into the sheer darkness of the yard, perhaps the privies. If he waited there in the WC's he could have seen what was going on and observed Diemschutz's seeing Liz's body then rushing inside the club.

He then took his chance to get out either when Diemschutz was in the club telling other members the news or when there were people looking at the body and others were coming and going, before the police arrived, in my opinion.

(I think the side door was unlocked so that members could come in and out. In fact one member, Morris Eagle, told a newsman. "It is customary for members of the club to go in by the side door to prevent knocking at the front." It appears the front door may have been locked.)

[GUT]

When Jack heard Diemschutz's pony and cart approaching it's my guess that he retreated back into the sheer darkness of the yard, perhaps the privies. If he waited there in the WC's he could have seen what was going on and observed Diemschutz's seeing Liz's body then rushing inside the club.

He then took his chance to get out either when Diemschutz was in the club telling other members the news or when there were people looking at the body and others were coming and going, before the police arrived, in my opinion.

(I think the side door was unlocked so that members could come in and out. In fact one member, Morris Eagle, told a newsman. "It is customary for members of the club to go in by the side door to prevent knocking at the front." It appears the front door may have been locked.)

I've always thought the dunnies were a good bet for a hiding place.

No evidence, but a good place all the same.

[Wickerman]

When Jack heard Diemschutz's pony and cart approaching it's my guess that he retreated back into the sheer darkness of the yard, perhaps the privies.
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He then took his chance to get out either when Diemschutz was in the club telling other members the news or when there were people looking at the body and others were coming and going, before the police arrived, in my opinion.

Yes, I also think that very likely, or perhaps he hid behind the large gate, it was open near to the wall but there may have been a space available. Either way, once Diemschitz stepped into the Club, he made his getaway.
It's a shame Diemschitz was not asked if he noticed anyone walking away from the yard shortly before he arrived. He was asked if someone could have left as he entered, but not while he approached further up the street.

[GUT]

Yes, I also think that very likely, or perhaps he hid behind the large gate, it was open near to the wall but there may have been a space available. Either way, once Diemschitz stepped into the Club, he made his getaway.
It's a shame Diemschitz was not asked if he noticed anyone walking away from the yard shortly before he arrived. He was asked if someone could have left as he entered, but not while he approached further up the street.

From the pictures I've seen though you could see through the gate, or am I wrong about that.

[Wickerman]

From the pictures I've seen though you could see through the gate, or am I wrong about that.

It was a double wooden gate, one side had a wicket (door) entry.
The iron railing gate seen in some photo's is a replacement.

"At the entrance to the court are a pair of large wooden gates, in one of which is a small wicket for use when the gates are closed."

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/times/18881001.html

[GUT]

It was a double wooden gate, one side had a wicket (door) entry.
The iron railing gate seen in some photo's is a replacement.

"At the entrance to the court are a pair of large wooden gates, in one of which is a small wicket for use when the gates are closed."
http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18881001.html

Maybe different terminology but I thought a wicket gate, had gaps between the wood.

[Wickerman]

Maybe different terminology but I thought a wicket gate, had gaps between the wood.

Where they are sketched in the press, they are a solid hinged wooden panel. They were still common when I was a kid, most business yards had a wicket gate, and none were made to allow you to see into the yard.

P.S. If you are thinking of the wicket in cricket, then it may be of interest to know that the cricket term came from the gate, not the other way around.

[GUT]

Where they are sketched in the press, they are a solid hinged wooden panel. They were still common when I was a kid, most business yards had a wicket gate, and none were made to allow you to see into the yard.

Ok just a timber gate then, what I have always known as a wicket gate was like cricket wickets with gaps between the palings, just a terminology thing.

[GUT]

Which brings ducking behind the gate to wait and then slipping out back into play.

[Batman]

I think he was well gone before Diemschitz arrived and was disturbed by Schwartz.

[harry]

How easy to disappear,would depend on a number of factors.How far did he have to travel.How long before a search could be organised.How many persons were in the immediate vicinity.How likely was he to be recognised if seen.Those are just a few.I believe,given the information known,it would have been comparatively easy.

[Michael W Richards]

There are a few murders where its implausible to imagine he kept himself clear of the blood...one case might be evident in the blood spurts on the wall in the Hanbury backyard, and there is little if any possibility that the person who left room 13 after the murder didn't have blood on him.

I think the key to this question is how long after the murder occurred was it discovered? Polly was probably found very shortly after her murder, so was Liz Stride, and we know Kate was.....we have police beats to provide that data. The Millers Court murder would have resulted in some substantial blood splattering, he moved the body and the organs about a fair bit there. I can see him holding the intestines at arms length while moving them up over the shoulders, but in Hanbury and Mitre Square that was at a height close to the ground...he was holding the viscera of Mary at waist height when placing pieces here and there, so he may well have splattered his boots and pant cuffs there. But as I stated, we have reason to believe that Mary was found quite a few hours after the murder, he could have cleaned himself up a bit before departing there. Maybe that's some of what he threw into the fire.

The most probable answer to his escapes was a local haven, a bolt hole or private room. The Batty Street Lodger might fit that kind of scenario.

Cheers

[Batman]

There are a few murders where its implausible to imagine he kept himself clear of the blood...one case might be evident in the blood spurts on the wall in the Hanbury backyard, and there is little if any possibility that the person who left room 13 after the murder didn't have blood on him.

There where no blood spurts on any wall at Hanbury St.

There is blood 12" from the ground on the fence opposite the neck of Chapman's body. This means she had been killed while on the ground (hence why the suggestion the ripper killed from behind and while they both stood up to be wrong). It means JtR is also forensically aware and can exsanguinate draining blood from the body. Hence lack of blood during mutilations and lack of blood on himself.

[Monty]

Dr Bagster Phillips -

"On the back wall of the house, between the steps and the palings, on the left side, about 18in from the ground, there were about six patches of blood, varying in size from a sixpenny piece to a small point, and on the wooden fence there were smears of blood, corresponding to where the head of the deceased laid, and immediately above the part where the blood had mainly flowed from the neck, which was well clotted."

Monty

[Batman]

Dr Bagster Phillips -

"On the back wall of the house, between the steps and the palings, on the left side, about 18in from the ground, there were about six patches of blood, varying in size from a sixpenny piece to a small point, and on the wooden fence there were smears of blood, corresponding to where the head of the deceased laid, and immediately above the part where the blood had mainly flowed from the neck, which was well clotted."

Monty

Okay so I stand corrected. Looks like there was some small splashes on the wall in addition to the fence.

Still is consistent with forensic awareness of not getting blood on the murderer though do to the low trajectory away from him.