Jack The Ripper walks

[Limehouse]

You also make excellent points about privacy, and, in the case of your family members' graves, simple propriety. I can only speak for myself when I say that I have never nor would ever take selfies of myself at the gravesite of someone I did not know and love personally. Once, while in Ireland, I had my then-wife take a picture of me kneeling at the grave of W.B. Yeats because his works meant and continue to mean a lot to me. But this was not a selfie and it was done out of reverence for the man. But I do see your point.

I have a great love for the poetry of Yeats. One line, in particular, holds special significance for me: 'But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you and loved the sorrows of your changing face.'

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

I have absolute respect for your views - and you have made some very good points about other historical locations. It is quite true also that the continued interest in the murders has given the victims a profile and a voice that I hadn't considered. As I stated in my original comment, the discomfort is my own and I would never condemn people who want to join a tour.

On a slightly different note, a few years ago a tour bus was seen to enter Chingford cemetery in north east London. It was, apparently, a tour devoted to criminal London. Many of you will know that the Kray family are buried in that cemetery, including the infamous twins. Obviously, their resting place attracts a certain amount of interest and local people are used to 'pilgrimages' to the graves and the obvious 'selfies' taken next to the twins' graves. However, on this occasion, a decorative tour bus drove into the cemetery and deposited a hoard of 'fans' close to the graves. As it happens, my parents are buried very close to the Kray graves, just yards away. On the day the tour bus visited, people attending graves of loved ones were upset by the presence of the bus, in particular, and to some extent the tourists in such large numbers. Local councillors were lobbied and the tour bus was prevented from entering the cemetery for future visits. The last I heard, the bus was depositing passengers at the gates.

You also make excellent points about privacy, and, in the case of your family members' graves, simple propriety. I can only speak for myself when I say that I have never nor would ever take selfies of myself at the gravesite of someone I did not know and love personally. Once, while in Ireland, I had my then-wife take a picture of me kneeling at the grave of W.B. Yeats because his works meant and continue to mean a lot to me. But this was not a selfie and it was done out of reverence for the man. But I do see your point.

[Limehouse]

Perhaps it's my lack of empathy/un-sentimentality/borderline psychopathy, but I fail to comprehend your disapproval and discomfort. (You certainly would not have approved of my original idea to attend the tour dressed in drag, and have my teenage son throw me to the ground at the actual site and pantomime stabbing me while I screamed, "Oh no! I'm being murrrrrrrderrrrrrrrred!" My son, to his credit and my disappointment, refused to be my accomplice.) I toured so many sites in London, in particular the Tower of London, where the sites of brutal executions took place both in the Tower itself and at nearby Tower Hill. They even have a special area where you can see where Anne Boleyn was executed. I think the whole idea is that, while perhaps distasteful to some, we are obliged to teach and show violent history, lest we make the fatal error of repeating it.

Had the victims of The Ripper/The Whitechapel Murderer survived, we would know essentially nothing of them. They would have passed into history (like most of us in another century) unremarked. With the aid of the appeal of the Ripper mystery and these tours, the victims are ensured a kind of immortality; perhaps not the kind of immortality we ourselves would desire, but the best available to them. 136 years later and people still leave flowers and coins on the grave markers of some of the victims...not too bad, all things considered.

I have absolute respect for your views - and you have made some very good points about other historical locations. It is quite true also that the continued interest in the murders has given the victims a profile and a voice that I hadn't considered. As I stated in my original comment, the discomfort is my own and I would never condemn people who want to join a tour.

On a slightly different note, a few years ago a tour bus was seen to enter Chingford cemetery in north east London. It was, apparently, a tour devoted to criminal London. Many of you will know that the Kray family are buried in that cemetery, including the infamous twins. Obviously, their resting place attracts a certain amount of interest and local people are used to 'pilgrimages' to the graves and the obvious 'selfies' taken next to the twins' graves. However, on this occasion, a decorative tour bus drove into the cemetery and deposited a hoard of 'fans' close to the graves. As it happens, my parents are buried very close to the Kray graves, just yards away. On the day the tour bus visited, people attending graves of loved ones were upset by the presence of the bus, in particular, and to some extent the tourists in such large numbers. Local councillors were lobbied and the tour bus was prevented from entering the cemetery for future visits. The last I heard, the bus was depositing passengers at the gates.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

This comment may make me rather unpopular, but I really don't approve of ripper tours. I would never condemn someone for joining a tour, but I personally find it distasteful and rather disrespectful. I understand that a great deal of time has passed since these women were brutally murdered and the events have become almost part of the folklore of east London. Nevertheless, I am very uncomfortable with the industry that has arisen around the murders. To put it into context, how comfortable would anyone be with tours of the locations of the victims of Peter Sutcliffe?

Perhaps it's my lack of empathy/un-sentimentality/borderline psychopathy, but I fail to comprehend your disapproval and discomfort. (You certainly would not have approved of my original idea to attend the tour dressed in drag, and have my teenage son throw me to the ground at the actual site and pantomime stabbing me while I screamed, "Oh no! I'm being murrrrrrrderrrrrrrrred!" My son, to his credit and my disappointment, refused to be my accomplice.) I toured so many sites in London, in particular the Tower of London, where the sites of brutal executions took place both in the Tower itself and at nearby Tower Hill. They even have a special area where you can see where Anne Boleyn was executed. I think the whole idea is that, while perhaps distasteful to some, we are obliged to teach and show violent history, lest we make the fatal error of repeating it.

Had the victims of The Ripper/The Whitechapel Murderer survived, we would know essentially nothing of them. They would have passed into history (like most of us in another century) unremarked. With the aid of the appeal of the Ripper mystery and these tours, the victims are ensured a kind of immortality; perhaps not the kind of immortality we ourselves would desire, but the best available to them. 136 years later and people still leave flowers and coins on the grave markers of some of the victims...not too bad, all things considered.

[etenguy]

This comment may make me rather unpopular, but I really don't approve of ripper tours. I would never condemn someone for joining a tour, but I personally find it distasteful and rather disrespectful. I understand that a great deal of time has passed since these women were brutally murdered and the events have become almost part of the folklore of east London. Nevertheless, I am very uncomfortable with the industry that has arisen around the murders. To put it into context, how comfortable would anyone be with tours of the locations of the victims of Peter Sutcliffe?

Hi Limehouse

Interesting ethical point.

I think the passing of time does make a diiference in respect of how raw emotions are in relation to the murder of relatives or friends. And I agree with you, that while there are primary relatives still living, it might very well be disrespectful to have tours of the sites related to the murders. Nevertheless, if the point is reached where tours are taking place after an appopriate time period, I think sensitivities still need to be respected.

I think individual ripper tours might be considered differently dependent on the level to which they are commercial enterprises exploiting the murders and entertaining an audience as opposed to those which focus on education and understanding history using the sites to provide the context. The more the educational objectives of the tours I think the less likely they might be considered inappropriate.

[Limehouse]

This comment may make me rather unpopular, but I really don't approve of ripper tours. I would never condemn someone for joining a tour, but I personally find it distasteful and rather disrespectful. I understand that a great deal of time has passed since these women were brutally murdered and the events have become almost part of the folklore of east London. Nevertheless, I am very uncomfortable with the industry that has arisen around the murders. To put it into context, how comfortable would anyone be with tours of the locations of the victims of Peter Sutcliffe?

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

No worries. Be glad you didn't wind up with De Locksley.

I'm afraid I don't know what that is.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Glad that you got to meet Rumbelow, Michael.

I don’t like not responding to posts. Sorry I missed this one Scott.

Yes, I had a decent chat with him. It was at the time that we were ‘waiting’ for Bruce Robinson’s book to come out and he jokingly complained that ‘I suppose that I’ll have to get it!’

[Scott Nelson]

No worries. Be glad you didn't wind up with De Locksley.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

Glad that you got to meet Rumbelow, Michael.

Disregard what I just said. My real name is Michael and I was under the false impression you were referring to me. My bad! LOL

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

Glad that you got to meet Rumbelow, Michael.

Unfortunately, I did not get to meet Donald Rumbelow. But I did take his tour on our first night in London and was less than impressed. From what I was told, he has retired from touring, as he must be in his eighties now.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

[Herlock Sholmes]

Somewhere in my attic I have a book about the so-called Highgate Vampire of the late 60s and early 70s that supposedly haunted Highgate Cemetery. The hoax was publicized by a dubious clergyman named Sean Manchester but somehow De Locksley got involved, too. If I remember correctly, he tried to exorcize the vampire with a magic ritual and the police got involved.

Hi Roger,

I read something about him after Scott’s mention.

https://davidfarrant.org/the-highgate-vampire-society/

https://dracula-tour.com/romania-short-breaks/halloween-short-breaks/dracula-tours-in-london-with-a-medieval-banquet/

[rjpalmer]

That’s a blast from the past Scott. I saw him once touting for walkers as I was waiting for a guide. I think that I might have found out that it was him because our guide was Don Rumbelow who told me. He used to appear regularly in Ripperana.

Somewhere in my attic I have a book about the so-called Highgate Vampire of the late 60s and early 70s that supposedly haunted Highgate Cemetery. The hoax was publicized by a dubious clergyman named Sean Manchester but somehow De Locksley got involved, too. If I remember correctly, he tried to exorcize the vampire with a magic ritual and the police got involved.

[c.d.]

I wonder if they have recently been remodeled. I saw a number of photos online and they were unbelievably bad including the stairs and hallway leading to them. I was going to post them but there was so much profanity and vulgar expressions on the wall I thought better of it.

c.d.