Bucks Row - Great Eastern Railway Yard

[Geddy2112]

Something interesting (shite I admitted it) from the recent HoL video - Robert Paul - from witness to Jack the Ripper Suspect. Stow claims 50 yards Eastward from the murder site was the entrance for the Great Eastern Railway Yard, which was guarded by PC 81 GER.

This Policeman states, when questioned he had not heard anything. Fine. However what is the likelihood of Lechmere killing someone if he know 50 yards further up the road there was a Policeman on duty, after all it's claimed he walked this street six times a week so would have known. They might have even tip their caps at each other on a morning. If this is true surely Lechmere would not risk killing someone is such close proximity to where he knew a copper was stationed.

The rest of the video is more spiel, missing out relevant details in a bid to attack posts here and on other Social Media platforms... the sheep love it though baaaa baaaa.

[rjpalmer]

Something interesting (shite I admitted it) from the recent HoL video - Robert Paul - from witness to Jack the Ripper Suspect. Stow claims 50 yards Eastward from the murder site was the entrance for the Great Eastern Railway Yard, which was guarded by PC 81 GER.

Some months back I asked David Barrat if he could try to identify this bloke, and he was kind enough to look through some G.E.R. records in London but what he found was not promising, so it now looks like there's little chance of discovering his name.

Thus, we have an unidentified male within 50 or 60 yards of the murder.

[Elamarna]

The exact location of PC 81 is unclear. I strongly suspect the the 50 to 60 yards quoted at the inquest is a very rough distance.

Rob Clack and Mr Stow discussed it a few years ago.
I added a 3rd possible location in Inside Bucks Row.
In my opinion, PC 81 was actually set well back from the road

[The Rookie Detective]

The exact location of PC 81 is unclear. I strongly suspect the the 50 to 60 yards quoted at the inquest is a very rough distance.

Rob Clack and Mr Stow discussed it a few years ago.
I added a 3rd possible location in Inside Bucks Row.
In my opinion, PC 81 was actually set well back from the road

Amazing post!


Please may I confirm that PC81 would not be "Eastward," but rather "Westward" of the murder site?

The locations on the map are Westward of the murder site and opposite to what is stated in the opening post.

RD

[Elamarna]

Amazing post!


Please may I confirm that PC81 would not be "Eastward," but rather "Westward" of the murder site?

The locations on the map are Westward of the murder site and opposite to what is stated in the opening post.

RD

I can only assume that is a typo in the original post RD, easily done. I know of one very well respected Author who once put in print that PC Neil was walking West down Bucks Row.

There were no goods yards to the East of the murder site, just a big warehouse.
The goods yard was to the West of Essex Whalf. Rail lines ran in from the north.
On the map it's very clear.the rail lines and the words Spitlefieds Coal Depot are by the red dot, the blue is the murder site

Steve

[Geddy2112]

Please may I confirm that PC81 would not be "Eastward," but rather "Westward" of the murder site?

Yes, you can and apologies for the error.

...left the body they passed the entrance to the Great Eastern Railway yard. Which was being guarded by PC 81 GER.

Then Stow goes on to give some speculative excuses why Cross and Paul might not have seen PC 81 GER, he might have moved from the gate or went for a pee. None of this removes the point that if Lechmere and Cross walked that route six days a week they should have known a Policeman was very close by the point where Polly was murdered (according to Stow) and common sense would imply they are unlikely to have committed a murder in such a location.

[The Rookie Detective]

Thank you so much for clarifying that point

I have never heard of PC 81 GER, so all of a sudden I am back on the Bucks Row path.

There must be a way to identify him


So fascinating, I love it!


RD

[Elamarna]

After a post from Rob Clack on JTRFORUMS, it appears I have placed his suggested position for PC81 slightly too far West.
This will of course be updated in the book, but here is the revised map.

Blue is Rob's suggested position.
Orange is Edwards
Purple is mine.

Steve

[Geddy2112]

Blue is Rob's suggested position.
Orange is Edwards
Purple is mine.

Thanks Steve, why the larger discrepancy between yours and the other two?

[Elamarna]

Thanks Steve, why the larger discrepancy between yours and the other two?

Rob is placing him at the weighting Machines in the 1870s, Ed is placing in slightly to the East of Rob.

By the 1890 Goad map, the machines and attached office had been moved further back from the road.

Given the officer had moved , it seems reasonable to assume that he might have been based in that office. He would still have a good view of the entrance, and perhaps a better view of the rest of the yard.

But seriously there is no way of knowing which of those 3 locations is correct .
None are within the distance suggested at the inquest.
I would further suggest that his reported comment that he heard or saw nothing argues against his being by the road. That none of the witnesses, including the Police in Bucks Row ( Neil and Mizen), who would have passed the yard make any mention of him either, supports the idea he was further back.

Steve

[rjpalmer]

Something interesting (shite I admitted it) from the recent HoL video - Robert Paul - from witness to Jack the Ripper Suspect.

I couldn't help noticing a gentleman in the comment section congratulating Ed for defending Robert Paul against those who are trying to fit him up.

And without a hint of irony.

[Geddy2112]

I couldn't help noticing a gentleman in the comment section congratulating Ed for defending Robert Paul against those who are trying to fit him up.

And without a hint of irony.

Firstly I must apologise, it seems this 'new' video has parts spliced in from other videos you yourself noticed and posted here two years ago about the 'callousness' which is where my OP comes from. So basically he regurgitating old crap to get his face on the telly now. I did get wrong from his missus in the comments about sound like an old record 'debunking' Lechmere but the irony of it is someone who changed his name is sound like a broken record for keep pushing the Lechmere theory.
I'll have to recheck the comments.

[Elamarna]

Update.

After discussion on the forums , using the 1890 Goad, which I was unable to access due to the Issues at the BL, I have now reassed my position.
Using the survey of London site to whittle down the period when the factory was extended. Looks like it was 92-93, which fits the 1890 Goad and the 1894 OS maps.

In light of this I would agree with Rob Clack that PC81 was probably based at the position he suggested.
However, i suggest he probably was also expected to patrol regularly, and my comments about his not being at the entrance at the time people pass still I think stand as likely.

[rjpalmer]

Firstly I must apologise, it seems this 'new' video has parts spliced in from other videos you yourself noticed and posted here two years ago about the 'callousness' which is where my OP comes from.

Ed seems to have backtracked a wee bit, now acknowledging that the railway policeman might have been making his rounds, which negates his earlier observations about Paul and Lechmere callously blowing past this sentry.

What we see in the 1873-1874 map kindly posted by Rob Clack is a weighing machine on either side of the entry, with a small hut or office in between.

Presumably this hut would have been for the scale master who weighed the loads coming in and again going out, and recorded the weights and assessed the appropriate fees, etc.

Do we really have any good reason to associate this hut with a constable for the railway?

[rjpalmer]

Here's an image of one of these weighing machines at the beginning of the Victorian era. Presumably it would have been more automated by 1870-1890.