Broad Shoulders, Elizabeth's Killer ?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Can someone remind me which paper and edition this came from please:


In the matter of the Hungarian who said he saw a struggle between a man and a woman in the passage where the Stride body was afterwards found, the Leman-street police have reason to doubt the truth of the story

[NotBlamedForNothing]

How do you work that out?

Can you name a member who believes both?

If Schwartz believers had 100% confidence in him, they would accept that some police had doubts, possibly including Swanson. Are you willing to take the risk that the Leman St report is legit?

[DJA]

Can someone remind me which paper and edition this came from please:


In the matter of the Hungarian who said he saw a struggle between a man and a woman in the passage where the Stride body was afterwards found, the Leman-street police have reason to doubt the truth of the story

The Star.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Do we know the basis for the apparent disbelief of Schwartz's account by Leman St.?

No, but I reckon they had uncovered some sinister plot. ha ha

George asked an important question a while back; In what order did the following occur?

- Schwartz's initial statement at Leman St
- Abberline's interviewing of Schwartz
- Schwartz comments to the Star man

I've always (rather thoughtlessly) believed that the above was the order. However, if the 2nd and 3rd points are swapped, the following question arises (at least it does in my mind). Was the initial statement closer to the press account, or the police account? By police account, I'm assuming that Swanson's report is a summary of Abberline's interview report. The Star says that "...the man's story was retold just as he had given it to the police". What if that is more true than not?

As I've suggested several times before, Anderson's reference to "the alleged accomplice" looks more like the Star account than what we read in Swanson's report. What is the source of Anderson's notion? Well, perhaps he got it from reading Schwartz's initial statement.

Was that disbelief set in stone never to change?

Hard to say how opinions changed over time. The failure to find a Lipski might have bothered the Home Office. What I find concerning is that we see no references to Schwartz after 1888. Decades later, Walter Dew remembered Fanny Mortimer, but apparently not Israel Schwartz.

Wouldn't Abberline have been aware of Leman's St.'s position and wouldn't he have addressed those concerns with Schwartz?

Quite possibly. As the Star tells us, the Leman St police "are not likely to act further on the same information without additional facts". Perhaps Schwartz was asked to supply those additional facts, but that implies the Star's follow-up report on "the Hungarian" is accurate.

[c.d.]

No, but I reckon they had uncovered some sinister plot. ha ha

Did anybody at Leman St. outrank Abberline with respect to the investigation?

c.d.