Clarification on the appearance of Miller's Court dust-bin and water pump

[RobCooper]

Hi all!

I am a 3D environment artist for video games, currently re-creating Miller's Court in Unreal Engine 5. I've collected a tonne of reference images not only of the court itself but of other places in Whitechapel at the time, but a couple of things that I can't find solid reference for (photographic or artistic) is the 'brick-built dustbin' (https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...erdossier.html) opposite MJK's window, and the water pump on the East wall. While I can find plenty of contemporary reference for Victorian courtyard water pumps, I was wondering if anybody here may know of any water pumps similar to the one in this artist's depiction (It is the only depiction I can find that includes the water pump) of Miller's Court? So far, I can't find any that look more than vaguely similar. As for the brick dustbin, I can find no photographs of Victorian dust/ash bins, nor any drawings or descriptions of what they looked like.



It's very likely that I'll just have to use second-hand reference for the water pump, and guess what a brick built ash bin may have looked like, but I thought I'd ask here in case any of you may have some sort of clue as to what these objects might actually have looked like in Miller's Court!

Many thanks,
Rob

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi all!

I am a 3D environment artist for video games, currently re-creating Miller's Court in Unreal Engine 5. I've collected a tonne of reference images not only of the court itself but of other places in Whitechapel at the time, but a couple of things that I can't find solid reference for (photographic or artistic) is the 'brick-built dustbin' (https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...erdossier.html) opposite MJK's window, and the water pump on the East wall. While I can find plenty of contemporary reference for Victorian courtyard water pumps, I was wondering if anybody here may know of any water pumps similar to the one in this artist's depiction (It is the only depiction I can find that includes the water pump) of Miller's Court? So far, I can't find any that look more than vaguely similar. As for the brick dustbin, I can find no photographs of Victorian dust/ash bins, nor any drawings or descriptions of what they looked like.



It's very likely that I'll just have to use second-hand reference for the water pump, and guess what a brick built ash bin may have looked like, but I thought I'd ask here in case any of you may have some sort of clue as to what these objects might actually have looked like in Miller's Court!

Many thanks,
Rob

Hi Rob,

Welcome to Casebook and good luck with your project. I can’t help with those images but give it time until more people see your post. We have posters here with large collections of photographs and stuff that they’ve researched and collated over the years. Someone usually comes up trumps on these occasions. Fingers crossed.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Hi Rob,

Welcome to the boards. There's a poster on the site, RichardH, who's a dab hand at 3D reconstructions of the crime scenes. I'd highly recommend trying to contact him.

Have a look here:

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-media/audio-visual/visual-media/781732-bit-of-an-updated-room-13-reconstruction#post781732

[RobCooper]

Hi Rob,

Welcome to Casebook and good luck with your project. I can’t help with those images but give it time until more people see your post. We have posters here with large collections of photographs and stuff that they’ve researched and collated over the years. Someone usually comes up trumps on these occasions. Fingers crossed.

Hi Herlock, thanks for the welcome. Fingers crossed!

Do you perhaps know why the image I posted has uploaded so tiny?

[RobCooper]

Hi Rob,

Welcome to the boards. There's a poster on the site, RichardH, who's a dab hand at 3D reconstructions of the crime scenes. I'd highly recommend trying to contact him.

Have a look here:
https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...ion#post781732

Thanks for the welcome, Al.

I Emailed Richard after stumbling across his posts here and his website, actually. He is very talented, and dutiful in his research and he's already saved me a bunch of time by allowing me to use his model of Miller's court as a position and scale reference for my own models (so much quicker than working with measurements and a 2D plan view of the court!).

He's not too sure on the appearance of the water pump and dust bin either, unfortunately - which makes me wonder if I'll have much luck myself!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock, thanks for the welcome. Fingers crossed!

Do you perhaps know why the image I posted has uploaded so tiny?

As Al will tell you, I’m the very last person to ask about tech issues. I’m still in the steam age I’m afraid. Someone will know though.

[Losmandris]

Hi all!

I am a 3D environment artist for video games, currently re-creating Miller's Court in Unreal Engine 5. I've collected a tonne of reference images not only of the court itself but of other places in Whitechapel at the time, but a couple of things that I can't find solid reference for (photographic or artistic) is the 'brick-built dustbin' (https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...erdossier.html) opposite MJK's window, and the water pump on the East wall. While I can find plenty of contemporary reference for Victorian courtyard water pumps, I was wondering if anybody here may know of any water pumps similar to the one in this artist's depiction (It is the only depiction I can find that includes the water pump) of Miller's Court? So far, I can't find any that look more than vaguely similar. As for the brick dustbin, I can find no photographs of Victorian dust/ash bins, nor any drawings or descriptions of what they looked like.



It's very likely that I'll just have to use second-hand reference for the water pump, and guess what a brick built ash bin may have looked like, but I thought I'd ask here in case any of you may have some sort of clue as to what these objects might actually have looked like in Miller's Court!

Many thanks,
Rob

Please do share when you have brought everything together. Sure it will be pretty spectacular!

[SkipToTheEnd]

so I found these bits about dustbins...

https://www.whatthevictoriansthrewaway.com/brickworks-and-recycling/

"In Victorian times, 90% of refuse that was collected (by weight) was ash from domestic and industrial coal fires. The Victorians called it ‘dust’, and the Public Health Act of 1875 required every household to have a receptacle, called a dust-bin, into which it could be put for collection. The ash/ dust was collected and taken to the ash-yards, where corporation employees sorted through it, sifting the rubbish to separate the dust from other materials such as glass, crockery, paper and card, rags, bone, grease and metal, all of which could be re-used or recycled. The dust was then sold to local brickworks, whose contractors carted it away for use in brickmaking, while the bits and pieces recovered were sold to scrap dealers."

Considering this probably was the bin for the court and the amount of coal fires potentially in the near area I would presume it was fairly large

I then found:
"Household waste was collected by dust-men and the manner in which the dust was collected was simple. The household dust was deposited by householders in holes called dust-pits or ash-pits. The collection crew typically included two dust-men, the filler and the carrier, using a horse-drawn cart. The filler filled the baskets by shovelling from the dust-pit. The carrier carried the basket to the cart emptying it and returning for the next one. The process was repeated until the cart was fully loaded, when it returned to the dust-yard, where the contents of the cart went through a chute onto a dust heap before proceeding on another collection round."

https://todaysconveyancer.co.uk/victorian-dust-yards-an-early-example-of-recycling-in-the-uk/

and lastly:

https://www.boltonrevisited.org.uk/s-ashpits.html

- this ones good as it has a diagram of one, there are others if you google too

so I don't think it would be a small dustbin area, likely to be reasonably large even just taking the people living in the court into account, in its simplest form it could just be a brick walled area, in which to dump the detritous and chimney ash for the bin man. Considering there's a window on that side, I would assume its not very high but could see it coming from the wall near the pump to atleast two thirds of the wall. from the pictures you provided and the layouts via your link I have attached where i think it would be (probably no higher than waist height considering the windows there/ or it could have been higher but further along - but considering someone would have to shovel the stuff out of it, it can't be that high or must have a door.

[RobCooper]

Thank you for your response! I moved in to a job soon after embarking on this project, but I am hoping to make time for it again, soon. Many thanks!

[Michael W Richards]

I think this illustration reveals just how close by Marys room Mary Ann Cox had to pass when going in and out of her own room. And how, when leaving the courtyard, she had an excellent view of Marys windows. When she followed Mary and Blotchy into the courtyard via the tunnel at 11:45pm Thursday night she would have passed very close to them, and she mentions noting he was clean shaven due to the light cast by the gas lamp opposite Marys door. She also said his boots made no sound as she followed them up the passage. She also states that she could see light in Marys windows despite the fact the "blinds" were drawn. We know that there was a muslin sheet covering the window, not "blinds", but aside from that Mary Ann gives us a very clear indication that facial features such as being shaven were visible due to the light cast on that door, and that she could indeed make out whether the room was lit even with the Muslin covering over the window.

A few things can be gleaned by those statements. 1, the boots she heard at 6:15am in the court that she conceded might have belonged to a policeman, did not belong to Blotchy. And that whoever owned these boots walked up and down the court, she heard no door closing or opening. And that if Mary had gone out again before Mary Ann came back in around 3am, returning to her room and noticing Marys room was dark, then perhaps Mary snuffed the candle before going out. Or she did so when retiring for the night. If Mary returns after Cox is back in her room, around 3am, then why doesnt Mary Ann hear anything? She claims to hear someone walking up and down the court, she hears doors when they open and close, and yet she doesnt hear "oh-murder" around 3:45-4:00am despite the fact 2 other witnesses did, and she says he was awake. If Mary is in the room singing and the light is visible when Mary Ann leaves to go back out around 1:20am, is Elizabeth Praters statement that the room was dark and quiet at 1:30am an indication of when Mary might have gone out? Between the time Mary Ann leaves to go back out at approx 1:15-1:20am and when Prater comes into the tunnel, around 1:30am. If so... then why didnt Prater see her leave? She would be coming down that tunnel very near to that time, and they both would have had to use that same 20 ft tunnel to access Dorset Street. If her room is still dark and quiet at 3am, would that indicate that Mary had not returned...or perhaps that Mary never left the room after the 1:30 "dark and quiet" pronouncement given by Prater?

Mary Anns reminder about that gas lamp is very interesting, because if Mary had gone back out and then come back at whatever time to her room with her killer, he would have been very visible if someone from the court had just happened by. But Mary Ann stayed awake and heard nothing save the bootsteps around 6:15am. No doors opening or closing. And she didnt hear "oh-murder", although Elizabeth Prater and Sarah Lewis both did.

I realize this started as a recreating the courtyard thread, but it seems that it might be a good time to assess the viability of a witness account too.