Can Anyone Help Me Understand the Back Court of 29 Hanbury Street

[barnflatwyngarde]

For a while I was under the impression that the back court of 29 Hanbury Street backed on to another back court, separated by a wall next to the outside privy.
My view was that a possible means of escape for the murderer was to clamber over the back wall into the adjoining back court and exit via the passageway of the houses opposite.

Someone replied to my post and let me down very gently by telling me that there was no back court backing on to the privy wall, there was in fact a factory opposite the back court of 29 Hanbury Street.

I've had a look at maps of the area, and my feeble brain just can't seem to extrapolate the information.

So my questions are:

1. If I was standing on the back step of 29 Hanbury street on a bright September day in 1888, what would I be looking at?

2. If there was a factory wall next to the privy wall, was there a gap, or a lane there between them?

Thanks!

[DJA]

[Christian]

For a while I was under the impression that the back court of 29 Hanbury Street backed on to another back court, separated by a wall next to the outside privy.
My view was that a possible means of escape for the murderer was to clamber over the back wall into the adjoining back court and exit via the passageway of the houses opposite.

Someone replied to my post and let me down very gently by telling me that there was no back court backing on to the privy wall, there was in fact a factory opposite the back court of 29 Hanbury Street.

I've had a look at maps of the area, and my feeble brain just can't seem to extrapolate the information.

So my questions are:

1. If I was standing on the back step of 29 Hanbury street on a bright September day in 1888, what would I be looking at?

2. If there was a factory wall next to the privy wall, was there a gap, or a lane there between them?

Thanks!

Hope this map helps?? You would have to hop the fence of no27 to gain access to the alley!! This map is from 1948

[erobitha]

Still taken from the 1967 James Mason clip.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Still taken from the 1967 James Mason clip.

Thanks erobitha, I am familiar with this photograph, I note that you can clearly see spare ground beyond the privy on the left.
Does this mean that the building/factory that was there in 1888 has been demolished?

[barnflatwyngarde]

Hope this map helps?? You would have to hop the fence of no27 to gain access to the alley!! This map is from 1948

Thanks Christian.

Interesting that you clarify that there was a lane close to the back court of 29 Hanbury Street, accessible via the back court of 27.

I am still of the opinion that it would be less risky for the killer to escape via the back court, rather than risk going through the close of 29.

[barnflatwyngarde]

I attach a link to a PDF which has some really clear maps of the murder sites.

Map 6 deals with the Annie Chapman murder.

Are we saying that the large hatched area adjoining on to Eagle Street is a factory/building?

To my untutored eye it looks like spare ground.

https://campbellmgold.co.uk/archive_definitive/jr_maps.pdf

[Joshua Rogan]

I attach a link to a PDF which has some really clear maps of the murder sites.

Map 6 deals with the Annie Chapman murder.

Are we saying that the large hatched area adjoining on to Eagle Street is a factory/building?

To my untutored eye it looks like spare ground.

https://campbellmgold.co.uk/archive_...ve/jr_maps.pdf

Yes Barn, that is one of the brewery buildings. Here is a (hopefully) clearer map;

[barnflatwyngarde]

Yes Barn, that is one of the brewery buildings. Here is a (hopefully) clearer map;

Thank Joshua, that is absolutely brilliant!

It all becomes clear now.

What I love about these boards, is that basically it's a group of people who are happy to help out folks like me who are struggling with understanding a specific point.

Thanks again.

[Christian]

Thanks Christian.

Interesting that you clarify that there was a lane close to the back court of 29 Hanbury Street, accessible via the back court of 27.

I am still of the opinion that it would be less risky for the killer to escape via the back court, rather than risk going through the close of 29.

Pleasure!! As I stated and you can clearly see hop the fence scarper down the alley/passage he’s away it definitely is a Possibility indeed!!

[Joshua Rogan]

Pleasure!! As I stated and you can clearly see hop the fence scarper down the alley/passage he’s away it definitely is a Possibility indeed!!

It's a possibility, but there was a gate at the other end of that yard (by the pub at no.23) which may have been locked. It was open, however, by the time Davis discovered the body - he fetched Kent and Green who had just arrived there for work. Whether it had just been opened or had been open all night is unclear.

[Joshua Rogan]

Thank Joshua, that is absolutely brilliant!

It all becomes clear now.

What I love about these boards, is that basically it's a group of people who are happy to help out folks like me who are struggling with understanding a specific point.

Thanks again.

Glad to help :-)

[erobitha]

Thanks erobitha, I am familiar with this photograph, I note that you can clearly see spare ground beyond the privy on the left.
Does this mean that the building/factory that was there in 1888 has been demolished?

My best guess is that it may still have been regarded as Brewery land hence its appearance on the map as backing right up the back railings / gate that is in the picture. Reality it was most likely spare ground that led to the alley that ran behind 27 and down towards the passage way that led back out onto Hanbury St.

I’d wager that was his escape route if the back was a gate, I doubt he was doing much climbing with bloodied recently harvested organs in his possession.

[barnflatwyngarde]

My best guess is that it may still have been regarded as Brewery land hence its appearance on the map as backing right up the back railings / gate that is in the picture. Reality it was most likely spare ground that led to the alley that ran behind 27 and down towards the passage way that led back out onto Hanbury St.

I’d wager that was his escape route if the back was a gate, I doubt he was doing much climbing with bloodied recently harvested organs in his possession.

Thanks for this Erobitha, I think that I've got it straight in my head now.

I just think that it would be a hell of a risk walking back through the passageway of 29 Hanbury Street, presumably with blood stains on their hands and clothing.

I'm not sure if there would have been gas lamps in the passageway, the Whitby photographs don't seem to show any, but it's possible that there were.
If this is the case, then it would have been a huge risk to exit via the passageway and out the front door.

[erobitha]

Thanks for this Erobitha, I think that I've got it straight in my head now.

I just think that it would be a hell of a risk walking back through the passageway of 29 Hanbury Street, presumably with blood stains on their hands and clothing.

I'm not sure if there would have been gas lamps in the passageway, the Whitby photographs don't seem to show any, but it's possible that there were.
If this is the case, then it would have been a huge risk to exit via the passageway and out the front door.

It was bright daylight outside so doubt once outside much suspicion would be raised - regardless of which exit route he took