Evidence left behind

[Spider]

Three of the C5 locations were most certainly picked by the killer (Double event, MJK).
But I suppose the others too were at least places he became acquainted with.... very unlikely he would operate in terra incognita

The Buck’s Row location of the murder of Mary Ann Nichols, given that the location appears rather random and exposed, gives the impression that it was possibly a rushed and spur of the moment killing. That he had time to carry out mutilations, he must have had nerves of steel, though considering this being the first of the canonical murders maybe he hadn’t thought through the location aspect of his intended spree and later refined this. Contemporary drawings tend to show Nichols body basically lying on the pavement, and the location of the body being given as ‘in a gateway entrance to Brown's stableyard’. There is no way really of determining now how far into the gateway entrance the killing took place, so maybe portrayals are inaccurate, and there was enough cover along with the poor lighting?
Probably neither Killer nor Victim choice of location, just chance and convenience.
In the case of Annie Chapman I would suggest it is highly likely that the location, rear of 29 Hanbury Street was chosen by Annie and was probably a regular preference.
In the case of Elizabeth Stride, despite there apparently being no ‘recorded’ use by prostitutes of Dutfield’s Yard (why would there be?), it is not hard to imagine that it’s a fair location for that purpose. Though often a busy location it is ideally suited with respect to seclusion and darkness particularly in the farther recesses and was probably used on occasion for drunken liaisons between couples leaving the club, and maybe prostitutes soliciting departing club leavers?
Whether the location was Killer or Victim preference I’m undecided, probably just a chance meeting and favourable to both parties?
For Catherine Eddowes and the Mitre Square location, given that the murder of Stride had not long since occurred, and that Eddowes having just been released from custody, the encounter as are the others, has to be by unfortunate (for Eddowes) chance. The location in this instance I believe would have been chosen by Eddowes and her familiarity with area, probably using Mitre Square previously.
I find it highly unlikely that the location for the liaison with Mary Jane Kelly ie; her own home, was picked by the killer. This would have been her decision to take him there and could suggest that there was some familiarity with him, possibly a previous encounter.
Most of these ‘Ladies of the Night’ would use regular tried and tested and familiar locations where they knew that there was little chance of being disturbed.
I personally don’t think that the killer ‘picked’ any of the locations, they were either the Victim’s preference or quite simply convenient.

[Leanne]

it is also reported that he unintentionally left behind a false wig at the scene of the crime of Elizabeth Stride.

Link us to this report please.

[Leanne]

Three of the C5 locations were most certainly picked by the killer (Double event, MJK).
But I suppose the others too were at least places he became acquainted with.... very unlikely he would operate in terra incognita

He probably observed the victims enough to know exactly where they worked and where they commonly took customers.

[Errata]

[QUOTE=Trevor Marriott;n723783]

If a butcher slaughtered pigs then he would have a very good understanding of human anatomy as a result, same for someone who hunted boars for example. Annie Chapmans murder initiated a search for suspects that is unlike any other of these investigations...they looked for trained people. Med Students, Med practitioners, ...it was the only period when they did this, and as a direct result of the interpretation of Annies murderers skill set determined by qualified medical examination of Annies remains.

So a butcher would know exactly where to look in a human body, and be able to find a uterus and a kidney, and be able to remove them in almost total darkness in 3-4 mins? When it took Dr Browns medical expert in female anatomy 3 mins just to remove a uterus, and he also damaged the bladder something that the "killer" didnt do. I think you and anyone else who postulates the butcher theory needs to have a rethink.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

A meat animals uterus looks nothing like a human one. So if a butcher is looking for something that resembles a pig uterus, he’s going to be looking a damned long time, and will probably end up taking part of the large intestine. Which Really only means that he wasn’t identifying it by sight, and had the ability to reason that an unfamiliar organ in the place that he thought a horned uterus was supposed to be would in fact be the uterus. Which is not a small thing under pressure.

[Lipsky]

I'm not sure I understand the logic here.... If he was familiar enough with the locality to be certain of making his escape, then surely he was familiar enough to assess whether the location was safe enough for his purposes, whether he chose it himself or was led there by the victim?

Three of the C5 locations were most certainly picked by the killer (Double event, MJK).
But I suppose the others too were at least places he became acquainted with.... very unlikely he would operate in terra incognita

[Joshua Rogan]

I believe that in a few cases its far more likely that the killer was led to the spot he commits the crime, and therefore I see him as careless in that regard. He doesn't try and control the location, or the situation, and that shows either misplaced confidence or ignorance on his part. He gets away with it for one reason....he knows those streets and alleys very well.

I'm not sure I understand the logic here.... If he was familiar enough with the locality to be certain of making his escape, then surely he was familiar enough to assess whether the location was safe enough for his purposes, whether he chose it himself or was led there by the victim?

[Trevor Marriott]

[QUOTE=Michael W Richards;n723780]

If a butcher slaughtered pigs then he would have a very good understanding of human anatomy as a result, same for someone who hunted boars for example. Annie Chapmans murder initiated a search for suspects that is unlike any other of these investigations...they looked for trained people. Med Students, Med practitioners, ...it was the only period when they did this, and as a direct result of the interpretation of Annies murderers skill set determined by qualified medical examination of Annies remains.

So a butcher would know exactly where to look in a human body, and be able to find a uterus and a kidney, and be able to remove them in almost total darkness in 3-4 mins? When it took Dr Browns medical expert in female anatomy 3 mins just to remove a uterus, and he also damaged the bladder something that the "killer" didnt do. I think you and anyone else who postulates the butcher theory needs to have a rethink.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Michael W Richards]

No skill needed to kill ! Cutting a victims throat in Victorian times was the usual method used by the majority of killers of male and female in Victorian times.

In the case of some of the victims there would have to have been two skill factors

1. The knowledge needed of the human anatomy to be able to know where the organs were located
2. The skill then needed to be able to remove them with anatomical knowledge.

How many persons would possess both sets of skills in 1888 certainly not butchers or hunters !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

If a butcher slaughtered pigs then he would have a very good understanding of human anatomy as a result, same for someone who hunted boars for example. Annie Chapmans murder initiated a search for suspects that is unlike any other of these investigations...they looked for trained people. Med Students, Med practitioners, ...it was the only period when they did this, and as a direct result of the interpretation of Annies murderers skill set determined by qualified medical examination of Annies remains.

And hers is also the only biological specimen taken with skill, and the cuts made to access it were necessary. "No meaningless cuts". Say that last quote for any other Canonically designated Ripper murder. Well, maybe for Stride....the one cut was all that was needed to kill her.

[Trevor Marriott]

Anyone could be wearing a sailors cap and/or scarf Trevor, the "appearance of" is the key there. What I meant was that a sailor would have to possess some semi-surgical grade knife and anatomy skills to have killed Annie, if he is accustomed to cutting up some other species that might be enough. But I don't think that kind of skills set would be found on most sailors. Its narrowing the potential field too much I think. Butcher, med student, hunter...that's the sort, and they were plentiful.

No skill needed to kill ! Cutting a victims throat in Victorian times was the usual method used by the majority of killers of male and female in Victorian times.

In the case of some of the victims there would have to have been two skill factors

1. The knowledge needed of the human anatomy to be able to know where the organs were located
2. The skill then needed to be able to remove them with anatomical knowledge.

How many persons would possess both sets of skills in 1888 certainly not butchers or hunters !

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Michael W Richards]

Well you thought process has always been illogical

Didnt one witness describe a man seen with a victim as having the appearance of a sailor, how would anyone be able to observe a sailor and be able to say what type of boat he was from?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Anyone could be wearing a sailors cap and/or scarf Trevor, the "appearance of" is the key there. What I meant was that a sailor would have to possess some semi-surgical grade knife and anatomy skills to have killed Annie, if he is accustomed to cutting up some other species that might be enough. But I don't think that kind of skills set would be found on most sailors. Its narrowing the potential field too much I think. Butcher, med student, hunter...that's the sort, and they were plentiful.

[DJA]

Well you thought process has always been illogical

Didnt one witness describe a man seen with a victim as having the appearance of a sailor, how would anyone be able to observe a sailor and be able to say what type of boat he was from?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Smell

[DJA]

or a sailor !!!!

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Prolly Hutchinson

[Trevor Marriott]

What? Sailor on a cattle ship, maybe. Otherwise that's a completely unwarranted line of thought.

Well you thought process has always been illogical

Didnt one witness describe a man seen with a victim as having the appearance of a sailor, how would anyone be able to observe a sailor and be able to say what type of boat he was from?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[pwilliamgrimm]

the ripper was a very organized killer. he used a ruse to get victims where he wanted them, always got away in the nick of time and the only clue he left behind was intentional.

it is also reported that he unintentionally left behind a false wig at the scene of the crime of Elizabeth Stride.

[Michael W Richards]

the ripper was a very organized killer. he used a ruse to get victims where he wanted them, always got away in the nick of time and the only clue he left behind was intentional.

Being able to pose as a client isn't in and of itself "organized", its premeditated. And at least Annie likely led her killer, not the other way around, and his miraculous escapes likely have more to do with his knowledge of local lanes and streets than something he had "organized" beforehand. I believe that in C1, there is proof positive he was disorganized, he couldn't have chosen a worse place to mutilate the abdomen of a woman he just killed. If Annie led him, like I believe, then he didn't choose anything about that venue either, or how he would escape from the scene. Marys killer murdered inside a courtyard with one entrance/exit. Very risky, and stupid if one intended to guarantee his escape. Kates killer killed in a square that was looked in upon by 2 policeman from 2 different entrances at 2 different times, if someone was "organized about who they killed, where they killed, and how they would get away, then none of the above would be the case. But it is.