Millers Court-Rediscovering Room 13 plans & diagrams

[Christian]

Some interesting plans and maps regarding room 13 including camera positions taken on 9th Nov 1888 also the correct numbering on Dorset Street 1888 taken from Ripperologist June 1997 by John Stedman

[Wickerman]

It's probably best to mention those internal plans of room 13 are hypothetical. Also, back in the late 90's there was a good deal of debate about the photographs being taken through the window, as suggested above.
This was false.

They made a preliminary examination of the body and sent for a photographer, who made several photographs of the remains. While all this was going on inside the house, the excitement in the neighbourhood was spreading,...

The photographer who had been called in to photograph the room and the body removed his camera from the premises at half-past four,..
Morning Advertiser, 10 Nov. 1888.

[Christian]

Indeed some valid points shared because the 1990s were a interesting period in ripperology some good some bad and some members missed a lot of it
cheers wickerman

[Michael W Richards]

The drawing of the courtyard clearly shows 2 windows on the second floor level in that courtyard, one above Marys set of windows, and one in the archway to #27. I contend that one of, or both of them, may have been the reason Elizabeth could hear the cry "as if from the courtyard". I think the one above Marys windows might have been a hallway window for the upper floor.

[Sam Flynn]

The drawing of the courtyard clearly shows 2 windows on the second floor level in that courtyard, one above Marys set of windows, and one in the archway to #27. I contend that one of, or both of them, may have been the reason Elizabeth could hear the cry "as if from the courtyard".

I refer to my earlier observation that she referred to having heard noises from the back of the lodging-house from "where the windows look into Miller's Court" - as opposed to "from outside my window", which would have been the more natural thing to say if it had been the case.

I think the one above Marys windows might have been a hallway window for the upper floor.

It wasn't a hallway, but the window of a room which, at the time of Kelly's murder, was occupied by a couple. Almost exactly 10 years later this would be the room where Eliza Roberts was killed by her sister.

[Christian]

Indeed Sam correct sir!!

[Michael W Richards]

I refer to my earlier observation that she referred to having heard noises from the back of the lodging-house from "where the windows look into Miller's Court" - as opposed to "from outside my window", which would have been the more natural thing to say if it had been the case.It wasn't a hallway, but the window of a room which, at the time of Kelly's murder, was occupied by a couple. Almost exactly 10 years later this would be the room where Eliza Roberts was killed by her sister.

I believe the quote that Im relating to is "as if from the court" Sam, which indicates she could hear noise if it emanated "from the court".

[richardh]

There's a good view of window configurations and possible positions of the cameraman (taking of the crime scene photos) in my attempt to 3D VR Miller's court.
Here's the link to the YouTube vid:

https://youtu.be/qlqov49u_dM

The vid is over a year old now and I really should have continued with it. I'm not sure if there's any worth in such a thing really, given that most of these sorts of things rely on artistic license (guesswork!).
It is enjoyable to create these things, though. And to put on a headset and go into Miller's court in VR is really amazing.

[Christian]

There's a good view of window configurations and possible positions of the cameraman (taking of the crime scene photos) in my attempt to 3D VR Miller's court.
Here's the link to the YouTube vid:

https://youtu.be/qlqov49u_dM

The vid is over a year old now and I really should have continued with it. I'm not sure if there's any worth in such a thing really, given that most of these sorts of things rely on artistic license (guesswork!).
It is enjoyable to create these things, though. And to put on a headset and go into Miller's court in VR is really amazing.

Yes have viewed this real good work must have taken a long time to put together?

[Sam Flynn]

I believe the quote that Im relating to is "as if from the court" Sam, which indicates she could hear noise if it emanated "from the court".

It indicates vagueness to me. If she had a window directly overlooking the court - which she didn't, by the way - there would have been no reason for her to be vague.

[Michael W Richards]

It indicates vagueness to me. If she had a window directly overlooking the court - which she didn't, by the way - there would have been no reason for her to be vague.

There is nothing in any record that precludes the window in the archway being in the back corner of Elizabeths room.."over the shed" Sam. And I don't agree that "as if from the court" is vague at all..."from somewhere outside" is vague, "as if from the court" identifies it as being from a relatively small enclosed space.

[Sam Flynn]

There is nothing in any record that precludes the window in the archway being in the back corner of Elizabeths room.."over the shed" Sam. And I don't agree that "as if from the court" is vague at all..."from somewhere outside" is vague, "as if from the court" identifies it as being from a relatively small enclosed space.

Sorry, you're clutching at straws in an effort to bolster your theory.

[Christian]

The drawing of the courtyard clearly shows 2 windows on the second floor level in that courtyard, one above Marys set of windows, and one in the archway to #27. I contend that one of, or both of them, may have been the reason Elizabeth could hear the cry "as if from the courtyard". I think the one above Marys windows might have been a hallway window for the upper floor.

Michael 26&27 Dorset Street was constructed-built around the 1720s!Millers court was built-completed in 1851 as an addition -extension So the window above Mary’s is a separate room for rent NOT a staircase window The staircase is in the original 1720s building ie number 26!!If you look at the attached june1928 image of Millers Court to the rear you can see a small window above the sloped extension roof that would be the staircase window to allow light in!
Sorry for the long thread but all the facts have to be correct
christian

[Wickerman]

There is nothing in any record that precludes the window in the archway being in the back corner of Elizabeths room.."over the shed" .....

Michael.

This 3D reconstruction shows there is no relationship between Prater's room #20, and that window over the passage at the rear, which is really part of No.27.


RichardH

[Christian]

Michael.

This 3D reconstruction shows there is no relationship between Prater's room #20, and that window over the passage at the rear, which is really part of No.27.


RichardH

Finally some folk just do not get the layout of buildings-room layouts! Well done Wickerman