Socialism in the East End

[Joshua Rogan]

Incidentally, it was Isenschmidt's wife who told the police "He used to frequent a Public House kept by a 'German' named Gerlinger in Wentworth Street Whitechapel"

When Thick went to check this, he reported;
"I called on Mrs Gerlingher, the person referred to in wife's statement, who stated that she did not know the man I referred to and that no person but the regular customers had visited her house a 'Public House'. I have made careful enquiries amongst Germans whom I know in this neighbourhood but failed to find any trace of 'Isenschmidt' having been seen in this neighbourhood".

Abberline reported that Isenschmidt "from his description he is believed to be identical with the man seen in the Prince Albert P.H. Brushfield Street, Spitalfields with blood on his hands at 7am on the morning of the murder of Annie Chapman".

Though I think the doctors at the asylum refused to let anyone confront Isenschmidt to identify him as the same man.

[DJA]

Reckon. Emma.

Isenschmid was Swiss.

[Joshua Rogan]

Jacob Isenschmid,an early suspect in Annie Chapman's murder "was known to a publican named Gehringer of Wentworth Street" according to Abberline.
Paul Begg and our own John Bennett.

Mmm, although the name is spelled Gerlinger in the report. Mrs Gerling(h)er was questioned by Sgt Thick, but she denied any knowledge of Isenschmidt, as did the other Germans he questioned in the area. Could she be the female relative?

[DJA]

https://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/Spitalfield/CommercialArms.shtml

[Joshua Rogan]

The staff at a pub (unnamed) next door to the Cambridge Music Hall were questioned as to the whereabouts of Alice McKenzie earlier in the evening. The City of Norwich seems to me to fit the bill. See the testimony of George Dixon (blind boy) during the McKenzie inquest.

Hi Jerry,
I'm not sure the City of Norwich was anywhere near the music hall. More likely George was taken to the Commercial Tavern (which Dave Hill thought might once have been called the City of Norwich, but not so, according to the website London Pubology). Or The Ship in nearby Wheler St. Or even closer was the White Hart, in Vine Court, which a few years later became part of Little Pearl St.

[DJA]

Jacob Isenschmid,an early suspect in Annie Chapman's murder "was known to a publican named Gehringer of Wentworth Street" according to Abberline.
Paul Begg and our own John Bennett.

[jerryd]

Also, George Dixon, the same blind boy, was found by a policeman investigating the Tabram murder, at 29, Star Street. Martha Tabram lived at 4, Star Street shortly before her murder.

[jerryd]

Thanks Sean,

The staff at a pub (unnamed) next door to the Cambridge Music Hall were questioned as to the whereabouts of Alice McKenzie earlier in the evening. The City of Norwich seems to me to fit the bill. See the testimony of George Dixon (blind boy) during the McKenzie inquest.

Also. in this book, Spitalfields: The History of a Nation in a Handful of Streets

by Dan Cruickshank it states,

"Booth dismissed the Little Pearl Street district as a 'thoroughly vicious quarter' partly because the presence of the Cambridge Music Hall on Commercial Street makes it a focusing point for prostitutes."

[seanr]

I made contact with Dave Hill from the MyHeritage post. He strikes me as a very nice and kindly man and who dignified my enquiries with a reply.

He accepts that Frederick Gehringer, also sometimes known as Adam Frederick Gehringer, was some sort of crime lord. Turns out Dave was one of the sources for Fiona Rules' book on Dorset Street.

He gave more details on the relative of Frederick Gehringer who was questioned by the police. The story was passed to him by his mother, Ivy Nafzger was born in 1913 (so I assume the story was passed onto her from an elder relative).
Intriguingly, the story is that it was a female relative who worked behind the bar of a pub. The story doesn't say which pub, but the family did own 'The City of Norwich'. She was questioned only about one of the murders. Again, which one is not passed on.

Martha Tabram's murder was almost right outside the door of the pub. The attack on Emma Smith was just around the corner and the murder of Alice Mackenzie was a short walk away from the pub. It seems plausible it was in relation to one of these, most likely Martha Tabram as it was so close.

I'm intrigued that it was a female relative, in that I'm not aware of a woman who questioned in relation to any of these crimes. It also seems to me, this suggests the police enquiry at one time took quite a different approach to the one generally discussed - I'd assume a woman was questioned as a potential accomplice rather than as the perpetrator of the crime.

If it wasn't one of the crimes committed near to the pub (assuming the relative was working at the City of Norfolk), I'm even more intrigued as to why the woman was questioned.

Anyone have any clues who the female relative of Gehringer was, who was questioned in relation to one of the murders? Is it one of the witnesses already generally known to us?

[seanr]

The Chief Constable of Great Yarmouth at the time was Mr. William Bogdon, http://british-police-history.uk/sho...ab=0&nav=alpha

[seanr]

Curious...I wonder if Gehringer (or the name at least) is any relation to Walter Ringer (or Wringer), one-time landlord of the Britannia? Walter, strangely enough, was apparently born in Norwich.
All of which puts me in mind of a thread (that I cannot currently locate) about a letter sent from a Dorset Street address claiming that Jack would soon kill two "Norwich women"...was this perhaps a warning from McCarthy to a rival?

Here's the clipping about the letter that was found by Chris Scott and posted at jtrforums (I hope redistributing the image isn't considered bad form).


The article was published on November the 2nd, one week before Mary Kelly's murder.

Kelly was murdered on the following Thursday night/ early hours of Friday morning.

The two piers in Yarmouth are called the Britannia pier and the Wellington pier. The pub at the bottom of Dorset Street was called the Britannia and the Duke of Wellington was a pub near Dorset Street, on the corner of Brune Street and Toynbee Street. It was the Duke of Wellington where McCarthy made his speech denouncing the Daily Mail's 'Worst Street in London' article a few years later. It seems safe to assume 'The Duke of Wellington' was a pub McCarthy consider friendly to him.

14 Dorset Street was, I think, a common lodging house which the witness at the Mary Kellly inquest, Caroline Maxwell gives as her address.

'The City of Norwich' was the pub belonging to the Frederick Gehringer. 'Norwich women' could mean women associated with the pub over the city itself.

It's possible it could be a coded threat. It'd be odd to use one's real address when sending a letter like this. So perhaps the threat is directed at, rather than coming from Dorset Street. It'd be a strange way to make such a threat though, to threaten someone in London by sending a coded letter to the Head-Constable of Yarmouth. It is an interesting set of coincidences.

[Joshua Rogan]

Well done sergeant.

https://youtu.be/OXltf7oUOBI

[DJA]

Norwich is in Norfolk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg

[Joshua Rogan]

Thanks Dave, my mistake. I was confusing Walter with Sam Piddymont (surely a relation of Mrs Fiddymont?) of the Market Tavern in Brushfield St, who was born in Norwich.
As you say, Ringer was born in Norfolk, but nowhere near Norwich it seems. Although as it happens Elizabeth Larke - the wife of a previous landlord of the Britannia - does seem to have been a Norwich woman.
.

[DJA]

Walter Ringer seems to come from Norfolk. Possibly Bagthorpe.

His widow was a local from Rotherhithe.