When and Why Were Murder Sites Demolished?

[Phil Carter]

Richard, if you were much older I'd seriously consider you a suspect.

Hello Jason,

Am I still the only one?... it would be nice to have company, and RN be better than many! Oldies but goodies they say...lol

Hope you are well

Phil

[Graham]

I visited all the Ripper sites way back around 1970, when I think No 29 Hanbury Street was still occupied...I've told this before - I grabbed hold of the knob of the door, but bottled out before I could see if it was open, and scarpered. The property was in a bad state then, it probably would've fallen down had it not been demolished.

Mitre Square never bothered me, but I was uneasy and afeared walking down Old Montague Street in the twilight...not sure if this street still exists now. Someone posted some photos of this street on the old boards - anyone know if they can still be located?

Graham

[Veritas]

29 Hanbury Street (sadly) was demolished erly in 1970. Even though it was delipated when you visited, I envy you having seen the building.

[Veritas]

Millers Court and the North Side of Duval/Dorset Street was demolished in June 1928 in order to expand Spitalfields market, I guess the north side of Hanbury Street was demolished because it was falling apart. However I too regret that they were not preserved and restored and an ugly brewery came up in its place. I regret that the Woods Building entrance into Bucks Row is closed (even though it was an unofficial dodgy public urinal), it was so atmospheric. Question - Is the cobblestones in Mitre Square the same ones that were there in 1888?

[Bailey]

. Question - Is the cobblestones in Mitre Square the same ones that were there in 1888?

Pre-empting Phil - SETTS!

General feeling is that they've pretty much been replaced if memory serves. Sad.

[Veritas]

Wow you were in Buck's Row (Durward Street) at 3:30 AM on an August 31? I always thought that Buck's Row (first visited by me in 1986) was the creepiest of all the canonical sites (since 26 Dorset Street and 29 Hanbury Street were demolished). Getting off the District Line tube stop at "Whitechapel" and seeing that name really sent shivers down my spine. That walk through the Woods Building entrance over the rail pass to the murder site is one that I would never forget. Yes and even walking though the once Dorset Street with the hideous car park on my right and the industrial landings on the left is atmospheric if one reads up on the history. For real Ripper atmosphere though I recommend the areas of Artillery Passage, Sandy's Row, etc. with its wonderfully restored Old Spitalfields atmosphere as well as the arch through Gunthorpe Street (where the White Hart pub is) to the the site of George Yards Buildings once was.

[Veritas]

That's what the Ripper tours are meant to do. But if you wandered in there and you didn't know anything about Jack, well, to me, it's just a pleasant place to sit for a bit before you move on. It has atmosphere, like I said, but most of inner London has that, especially at night.

But you're right, it's one of the last few spots where you can stand where Jack probably did.

Actually you can stand on all the sites where Jack killed his victims - if you can get into the brewery now used as a parking lot on Hanbury Street you can stand where Chapman was killed and if you know where you are going on Henriques Street just inside the school yard you can do the same for Stride. As for Kelly, we were able to figure out the exact spot where her room was which is where the permanent ladder is located. Eddowes and Nichols sites are easy to find although greatly changed from 1888.

[Monty]

Millers Court and the North Side of Duval/Dorset Street was demolished in June 1928 in order to expand Spitalfields market, I guess the north side of Hanbury Street was demolished because it was falling apart. However I too regret that they were not preserved and restored and an ugly brewery came up in its place. I regret that the Woods Building entrance into Bucks Row is closed (even though it was an unofficial dodgy public urinal), it was so atmospheric. Question - Is the cobblestones in Mitre Square the same ones that were there in 1888?

No

Monty

[Andrew Firth]

Monty,

I was under the impression that some of the setts in Mitre Square could be original, but that they had been uplifted and relaid at a 90 degree angle compared with the original layout. Is that correct?

Looking at photos from the early 20th Century, I notice that the stones used to run from the direction of Mitre Street towards Church Passage, which is not the case today.

Clearly the shape of the square has moved about a bit, particularly where the pavements run, but my guess is that it would be logical to keep the stones in the square, rather than carting them off somewhere and bringing in new ones.

All the best
Andrew

[Lechmere]

Old Montague Street is still there and Woods Buildings is often open as the market workers keep their dismantled stalls in there. I saw it open tonight.
You can get into the Hanbury Street site every Sunday when the area is used for a market.

[Nothing to see]

Hanbury St c1967 before it was demolished. With James Mason as your guide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjIUQqrkJdU

[Monty]

Yes Andrew, we have debated that before haven't we mate?

However they just don't look right to me. Weren't these setts placed during the 80s?

Monty

[Veritas]

Old Montague Street is still there and Woods Buildings is often open as the market workers keep their dismantled stalls in there. I saw it open tonight.
You can get into the Hanbury Street site every Sunday when the area is used for a market.

Thanks for that information. Next time in London I will make sure to get into the Hanbury Street parking garage. Also glad to hear that Woods Building occasionally is opened.

[Merry_Olde_Mary]

I know 29 Hanbury Street was razed in the late 1960s. And Miller's Court in the '20s. Can anyone tell me why these historic sites were destroyed?

I'm from th U.S., but have at least learned something about the redevelopment of "historic" sites over here, and some of the same considerations may apply to development trends around London, as well.

Basically, a site designated as a landmark can be a financial burden to its owner, as it means the property's exterior and grounds cannot be significantly changed. Business people and entities who own property usually want to maximize their investment...i.e., develop them for maximum occupancy or use. So, if they own a 2 story building, it will occur to them at some point that they can quadruple their land value by tearing an older or smaller structure down and building a six story building in its place.

I am all for preservation. Sadly, over here, almost every designation of a site or building is met with VERY energetic legal resistance from the property's owner. It can become very, very ugly, and the public finds itself up against teams of corporate lawyers.

The houses on Hanbury Street would have been beautiful if they were restored. I understand that Miller's Court was considered very seedy and some residents were probably happy to see it go. But they could have restored it to respectability without destroying it.

I love love LOVE old buildings and would never live in anything else, but the issue you run into with "beautiful" old buildings is the difference in aesthetics idividuals have. There's no common guideline or agreement as to what's technically "beautiful", so it's hard to convince many city officials (who approve building permits) that an older building will be more attractive than a cheap, new one.

[Robert]

I think that the north side of Dorset St was demolished so that the Market could be expanded. I don't think that there was any feeling at the time that the site had any historical importance because of the Kelly murder. Only one person went out and snapped it just before demolition (Leonard Matters).