Victorian photos of the Whitechapel murder sites.

[toynbee]

I meant the 1890s, as I was working from memory.

Unfortunately I'm not responsible for the website and its content. I could mail Richard and ask however I'm sure he is busy at the moment.

Maybe you could contact the site itself?

Monty

Unfortunately I can't find a contact link on the webpage or site.

Could you please contact & confirm this GYB photo I speak of ? I think you are correct in thinking it is the 1897 George Yard (street) photo because it mentions it will be out in the book UNCOVERING JACK THE RIPPER'S LONDON.

Kind regards

[toynbee]

Unfortunately I can't find a contact link on the webpage or site.

Could you please contact & confirm this GYB photo I speak of ? I think you are correct in thinking it is the 1897 George Yard (street) photo because it mentions it will be out in the book UNCOVERING JACK THE RIPPER'S LONDON.

Kind regards

This is a very exiting find this 1890 photo of GYB. It's the earliest known photo of a Whitechapel crime scene location apart from the Miller's Court one. 10 years before the Dutfields Yard photo. Looking forward to seeing it!

Does anyone know if it has been published yet or when ?

Kind regards

[toynbee]

This is a very exiting find this 1890 photo of GYB. It's the earliest known photo of a Whitechapel crime scene location apart from the Miller's Court one. 10 years before the Dutfields Yard photo. Looking forward to seeing it!

Does anyone know if it has been published yet or when ?

Kind regards

So we have three ! The Miller's Court from 1888, the super Dutfields Yard photo from 1900 & this very obscure George Yard Buildings photo from 1890!

That's great, when you think that 2 Victorian photos of Whitechapel murder sites have turned up in the last 3 years. Perhaps we can expect more to be unearthed?

Kind regards

[toynbee]

This must be one of the most exiting photographic location finds since the Dutfields Yards photo found by Philip Hutchinson.

Taken only 2 years after the murder ! Its amazing how these things have survived. It should answer a few questions about the George Yard Buildings hopefully ?

Although I can't seem to find any discussions yet about this amazing discovery. Have there been any that I have missed?

Why isn't anybody talking about this ?

Oh well..i'll keep trying !

Kind regards

[toynbee]

I meant the 1890s, as I was working from memory.

Unfortunately I'm not responsible for the website and its content. I could mail Richard and ask however I'm sure he is busy at the moment.

Maybe you could contact the site itself?

Monty

Monty,

I didn't think for one moment that you were responsible for their website and its content. Why would I ?

I was just trying to get information about the new discovery.

Kind regards

[John Bennett]

This must be one of the most exiting photographic location finds since the Dutfields Yards photo found by Philip Hutchinson.

Taken only 2 years after the murder ! Its amazing how these things have survived. It should answer a few questions about the George Yard Buildings hopefully ?

Although I can't seem to find any discussions yet about this amazing discovery. Have there been any that I have missed?

Why isn't anybody talking about this ?

This photograph was discovered several years ago. Richard's book (which featured it) was published in 2007, so quite a while has passed. Any discussions that took place here probably happened at the time. 4 years is a long time in Ripperology.

Have you seen it? It doesn't show George Yard Buildings, just the street itself...

[Monty]

Have you seen it? It doesn't show George Yard Buildings, just the street itself...

John, dont go there mate.

I spoke to Richard Jones about this last night. It is indeed a photo George Yard, not the buildings, and was found by Richard and Sean East at Bancroft Road Library.

The photo was restored by them both and used in their book Uncovering Jack the Rippers London.

Monty

[DrHopper]

Not sure about the other sites, but for Miller's Court we have 6 contemporary or pre-1930 photographs

Miller’s Court – External Shot – 1888
Miller’s Court – Internal (MJK1) – 1888
Miller’s Court – Internal (MJK2) – 1888
Miller’s Court – Entrance From Dorset Street 1 – 1928
Miller’s Court – Entrance From Dorset Street 2 – 1928
Miller’s Court – Demolition Photograph – 1928

Although there are numerous contemporary etchings from various newspapers, at least some of which were taken first-hand, rather than reprodiced via photographs or other sources.

I do find it remarkable that so few photographs exist - especially given the interest generated in the case at the time. I strongly believe that many photographs are awaiting discovery - lost in attics and junk stores around the UK, and even the world. Fingers crossed, eh?

[DrHopper]

I asked this question in another thread, and sort of tangentially wanted to discuss this. Is it possible that, by working together, we can produce a definitive list of the photographs of the relevant people and places. This list should only include those photographs taken pre-1930, or later if better quality or are a single example (GYB for example). Also, we should perhaps limit the list to just photographs initially (not etchings, they can be added later), and just the canonical 5 in this initial stage (whether you agree with the C5 or not, it is a useful distinction to make), but eventually to include all the possible victims.

Using a table, we could build database that includes an individual identifying code for each photograph allowing ease of discussion, date taken, view, an online URL for an example of the photograph (perhaps linked to the Casebook.org photo archive, or external URL if needed), place the photograph original is stored/ownership/copyright details, place the best quality example can be found, and any other detail deemed useful.
The GYB discussion above illustrates, I think, the need and usefulness of such an approach - are we talking about an entirely new photo, or one that some of us have seen, but not others, or is it the same one we all know? If it had an ID code, GYB3 for example, we would all know to what this refers, and the problem would be solved.

I dont mind making a start if people think this is worthwhile. And whether or not it is adopted elsewhere is not really an issue, i just think it would facilitate greater ease of discussion in what is a subject that is overloaded with disparate information - to make some sense and order from the chaos must be a useful tool.

[Rob Clack]

John, dont go there mate.

I spoke to Richard Jones about this last night. It is indeed a photo George Yard, not the buildings, and was found by Richard and Sean East at Bancroft Road Library.

The photo was restored by them both and used in their book Uncovering Jack the Rippers London.

Monty

And reproduced in me and Philip's book.

Rob

[Dr. John Watson]

Is this the view that everyone's talking about?


John

[DrHopper]

Thanks Watson.
I was just about to say - for the love of god, can someone post the picture. But this confused situation is precisely what I'm talking about. If we don't know how many pictures, where they are, nor what they portray, then how are we to use the information they contain?

[DrHopper]

This is the sort of thing I mean:

This is the list for Miller's Court

MC1 External Shot of No.13 from within Miller’s Court 1888 http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...?album=6&pos=2
MC2 Internal View of No.13 (MJK1) 1888 http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...album=36&pos=5
MC3 Internal View of No.13 (MJK2) – looking toward the door 1888 http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...album=36&pos=1
MC4 View of passage into Miller’s Court from Dorset Street – looking east 1928 Leonard Matters 1 – Jan 1928 http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...album=6&pos=11
MC5 View of passage into Miller’s Court from Dorset Street – straight on 1928 Leonard Matters 2 – Jan 1928 http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...album=6&pos=12
MC6 View of the demolition of Miller’s Court and surrounding areas. 1928 Hulton Archive Photograph http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...album=6&pos=13


This for Dutfield's Yard

DY1 Dutfield’s Yard, internal shot showing location of body 1900 Copyright Philip Hutchinson In Philip Hutchinson - Jack The Ripper Location Photographs
DY2 Dutfield’s Yard entrance, from Berner Street 1909 http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...?album=4&pos=4


This for George Yard Buildings

GYB1 Entrance to the buildings head on c.1970 In Winston Ramsay - East End: Then & Now http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...?album=7&pos=5
GYB2 The rear of the buildings showing balconies I c.1960s John Bennet http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=61&page=23
GYB3 The rear of the buildings showing balconies II – GYB at left c.1960s John Bennet http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=61&page=23
GYB4 The entrance from Berner Street 1967 Stewart P Evans http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...?album=7&pos=3
GYB5 The back from Toynbee Hall – George Yard Building just visible at Top Right c.1920s Philip Hutchinson In Toynbee Hall: The First 100 Years http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/19301.html

[The Grave Maurice]

I think your idea will prove to be very useful, DrH. Clever of you to come up with it.

[DrHopper]

Here are the photographs of Mitre Square. As with the above listing these are the photographs that I have deemed to be of most use. Please suggest any/all others that you might consider worthy. Also, this is just photographs at the moment, the other illustrations will be done later.


MS1 – Ripper’s Corner; gates & murder site – 1960s – Tom Cullen – http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...album=5&pos=14
MS2 – Ripper’s Corner & murder site – 1928 – Leonard Matters - http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...album=5&pos=11
MS3 – Church Passage Corner – 1928 – Leonard Matters - http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...album=5&pos=12
MS4 - St James Passage corner – 1928 – Leonard Matters - http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...album=5&pos=13
MS5 – Looking toward Ripper’s Corner from Church Passage – c.1925 – William Whiffin - http://photos.casebook.org/displayim...album=5&pos=10
MS6 – looking toward Ripper’s Corner from Church Passage, same shot as MS5 – mid/late 1930s – William Stewart – No link due to copyright
MS7 – Ripper's Corner with outline of body - mid/late 1930s – William Stewart - – No link due to copyright