the Goulston St Graffiti

[sgh]

A fascinating and very interesting piece of groundwork there Lechmere - well done!
You've got me rooting through the archives now!
There's a C1907 photo of the Sunday Poultry market at this link

http://photos.casebook.org/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=1

I've took a look (close up enhanced in photoshop ) at the background and can't determine for certain if there are any metal railings adjacent to the doorways.
There are materials like rugs or something draped over something in the proximity, however they appear to be on the boundary of the market and not draped over any railings belonging to the properties.
To confirm that, on the 2nd doorway along I can just make out the head and shoulders of a policeman stood between those draped rugs and the doorway behind him. Considering the angle of the dangle of the photo, people etc, etc the draped materials are at least 7ft to the fold.

Viewing other slightly later photos of the areas around, the floor grills set in the pavements seem popular.

Well worth pursuing this further!

Best
Steve

[Lechmere]

Until I saw the 1970s picture with the railings I couldn't see how there could be railings. With a busy market and a long drop it would be dangerous. I know that health and safety didn't mean much back then. But the recess would soon get filled with rubbish and become a dung heap. Also the apron could have just been dropped down the recess, if the graffiti and apron are not connected.
There could have been railings and a grill and the grill could have been at ground level or on top of the railings. I found an example of a top grilled railing at Bedford House near the old Commercial Street Police Station.
I need to get access to certain palces to get more info - and I should be able to do that soon.

[sgh]

Lechmere,
Makes me want to dig up a section of those floor tiles and see what's underneath or how any modifications were made.
Looking at your photo of the floor glass panels, I wonder if it's possible to access the underneath side from the basement for any clues as to previous installations?

[Monty]

The recesses where discussed by some of us here many months ago now, and late last year on the Forums thread.

It certainly raises an issue re the the apron and the agruement if it could be viewed from the street as stated. It supports the theory Jack actually stopped in the stairwell as opposed to merely tossing the apron piece in there as he passed.

As for access to the recess, we do not know for certain but there was a door in the stairwell which logically should have led down to the basement and possisbly the recess. Just a thought.

Monty

[Lechmere]

I think I have read those threads, which is what got me thinking.
I think that when the blocks were remodelled (probably in the 1920s) they dropped the ground floor level in Goulston Street. The ground floor level is now more or less level with the pavement. The tops of the basement windows shown in the 1970s photo and those still visible bricked up at the rear are a couple of feet above the pavement level. This implies that they dropped the ceiling height of the basement.
Isn't it thought that the basement was the washroom and toilet facility? Maybe they modernised the flats and this facility became redundant. I expect the ceilings are now too low. I am certain some basements are still in use though, maybe as storage or they lowered the floor. I will try and find out, and as I said there are several areas I know I can get to that will tell me a lot more.
It is the only building left to inspect and finding some of these details out will possibly shed some light on some of the controversies.

[Sally]

A Plan?

I don't suppose any plans survive, do they? It's obvious, I know, but worth checking if you haven't already?

[Monty]

There are plans, but not of the period.



Monty

[Lechmere]

What period?

[Monty]

The period.

[Lechmere]

Sorry, I meant do you know what is the date of the plans that are available?

[Scorpio]

supposing the graffito was written by Stride's killer, did Israel Schwartz's interrruption of that crime, forcing the attackers departure from the scene sooner than they might have planned, provide the anti- semetic inspiration?.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Scorpio

supposing the graffito was written by Stride's killer, did Israel Schwartz's interrruption of that crime, forcing the attackers departure from the scene sooner than they might have planned, provide the anti- semetic inspiration?.

Well if you mean inspiration as to JtR being angered by being interupted by IS then sure, especially since he yelled the derogative "Lipski" also. but I have also posited previously that perhaps another (more primary) reason for the GSG was that the night of the double event was perhaps the first time that the Ripper felt that he had been seen well by witnesses and so now was the time for a little obsfucation. What better way to throw the police off your scent than to incriminate the type of people(jews) who were the witnesses.

[Scorpio]

Hi Scorpio


Well if you mean inspiration as to JtR being angered by being interupted by IS then sure, especially since he yelled the derogative "Lipski" also. but I have also posited previously that perhaps another (more primary) reason for the GSG was that the night of the double event was perhaps the first time that the Ripper felt that he had been seen well by witnesses and so now was the time for a little obsfucation. What better way to throw the police off your scent than to incriminate the type of people(jews) who were the witnesses.

Hello, by " inspiration " i mean a motive fuelled by frustration and anger at a witness, whom, the killer, to judge by his vocal outburst, assumed was a Jewish man. Which witness are you referring to? Schwartz?,Lawende?.

[Abby Normal]

Hello, by " inspiration " i mean a motive fuelled by frustration and anger at a witness, whom, the killer, to judge by his vocal outburst, assumed was a Jewish man. Which witness are you referring to? Schwartz?,Lawende?.

Hi Scorpio
In terms of anger for being interupted, then definitely IS. In terms of trying to cast blame on witnesses who the killer might have felt got a good look at him then IS, along with Lawende and co.

[Scorpio]

I am currently writing an essay on the organised/disorganised offender profiling model. The possible use of a scapegoat,is,i suppose, an example of organised behaviour that had not occured to me.