Berner Street to Mitre Square: how long?

[Writerboy]

IN the godawful Caine movie it claims it wasnt really possible to make it from one to the other in time without a coach. Is there any truth in this? I wondered how far it actually was and how it ties in with the likely times of death of the victims?

[robhouse]

probably a 12 minute walking, just guessing.

RH

[Monty]

I timed it at that when I walked it Rob.

Not far at all.

Monty

[Adam Went]

Unfortunately timing it is reasonable enough if you want to get an estimation of how long it would take to walk directly from one point to another, but we don't know that Jack did that - it's highly unlikely he would have been jogging or running, as that would have attracted attention to himself, and unless he was supremely fit, Lawende made no mention of Jack leaning against the wall trying to catch his breath.....but he might well have have taken a longer path to the square or paused elsewhere first. If we presume that Liz was killed at around 12.55 AM, and the Lawende sighting took place at 1.32 AM, allowing him five extra minutes to have already been standing there talking to his victim, that gives him a full half an hour to make his way from Berner Street to Mitre Square. So I guess it's safe to say that, if walking, nothing less than 12 minutes, nothing more than 30....

Writerboy: "Godawful Caine movie" ? I think you meant to type "Awesome Caine movie, much better than From Hell."

Cheers,
Adam.

[Writerboy]

Thanks for the clarification. I wonder what sort of district Mitre Square was at the time, ie was it the obvious area to be heading into if he wanted to find another prostitute, or was it pure chance.

And no, I did mean godawful, I'm afraid. The only film I've ever seen Caine give a bad performance in, but then with dialogue that bad it's hardly surprising. David Wickes is no screenwriter. (To give Aberline some character, we'll give him a drink problem and an implausible relationship with Jane Seymour). Lewis Collins is equally bad but Ken Bones, Jane Seymour and the guy playing Bates the reporter are even worse. And Susan George seems to be playing Eliza Dolittle.

As for the actual plotting (and how clean do those East End streets look?), its ludicrous. At one point Caine draws up a list of suspects purely based on who he has met so far in the film. It's pompous and cringeably OTT. GIve me Murder by Decree any day, which doesn't claim to be "the result of painstaking deduction" etc and yet captures magnificently a sense of danger and also of compassion. I remember how the brilliant BBC Timewatch documentary was shown a week before the Caine Jack the Ripper and totally took the wind out of its sails pointing out why we cling to ever more outlandish theories about the Ripper.

And Richard Mansfield, who outside his legendary acting career was chiefly known as a philanthropist, is libelled here beyond belief!

[kensei]

I have a strange affection for the Michael Caine film Writerboy, having taped it on VCR when it was first shown in 1988 when I was stil quite young. I still watch it from time to time and now that I'm much more versed in the Ripper case I understand all of its shortcomings, but I still think it ranks as one of the best Ripper films ever. Caine is a tremendous actor no matter what he does, and when thinking of this film what immediately pops into my mind is when his superior officer demands an arrest and he snaps, "Do you want the killer or will anybody do?!"

Also, the scene in which Caine's Abberline beats a confession out of John Netley in the jail cell is just a damn fine piece of work, even if it is a piece of fiction that never really happened.

In the scene in question, the one about how long it takes to get from Berner Street to Mitre Square, I've seen it enough times that I can remember it pretty faithfully. Abberline and Godley (who in real life did indeed know each other but were NOT constant partners) come bursting into the square out of breath and check their watches. "Nine minutes," announces Godley. "No George," says Abberline, "he wouldn't have run like we did, he'd attract too much attention." So they decide on "a quarter of an hour" as walking speed before they come up with their even faster theory about someone in a coach.

Personally, in 2008 while on vacation to England I walked from Berner (now Henriques) Street to Mitre Square at a brisk pace as I imagined the ripper doing it in 14 minutes, taking into consideration the modern traffic, red lights, etc.

[protohistorian]

The distance is roughly 2800 ft. At 3 mph (the speed the met set for beats) it is 10.60 minutes. Dave

[Monty]

Standard allocated speed for a Met PC is 2 and 1/2 mph in the day, 3 mph in the evening.

Just to be boringly specific.

Monty

[protohistorian]

Thanks Monty! I need someone keeping an eye on me. Dave

[PC Roadnight]

Standard allocated speed for a Met PC is 2 and 1/2 mph in the day, 3 mph in the evening.

Just to be boringly specific.

Monty

Hi Monty, Can you tell me where this info comes from? I dont recall seeing it before in General Orders or Police Orders covering the period when I was researching.
Peter

[Adam Went]

Writerboy:

Hmm....interesting thoughts, but I have to say i'm with Kensei on this one. For Ripperologists who know the ins and outs of the case, of course the film and suspect list is going to look ridiculous, but I doubt that it was designed with us in mind. It was for the general public and apparently created a lot of interest at the time - I remember reading somewhere that they filmed 4 different endings to the film with different suspects, and nobody other than a select few knew which one they would end up going with. Unfortunately, the choice of Gull caused a bad follow on effect to From Hell....in fact, if you think about it, the two films are actually quite similar. From Hell is more action packed but i'd take the 1988 version any day.
Michael Caine is a brilliant actor and one of my favourites as well.

As for Richard Mansfield, there have been whispers in the past about his candidacy as a suspect in real life. The whole Jekyll & Hyde thing going on at the time was said by some to have inspired the work of the killer. Of course there's no truth at all in the Mansfield theory, but it wasn't entirely made up....

Anyway, sorry, a bit off topic....

Cheers,
Adam.