Life INSIDE 13 Miller's Court

[Steve S]

Just a couple of comments....Since I often spend a week or so living 18thcent style,(people have funny hobbies...)..You very soon adapt to a different level of cleanliness...As mentioned,outer clothes are simply brushed off when dry,,,A lot of rubbish goes on the fire..and a simple rinse of face and hands is enough to start the day!
Steve

[joelhall]

I'm not so sure about the comment that photos of men, even well to do in the Victorian era had stains and such over their clothes. I have a wealth of photographs of our family, and they all have clean clothes and are well groomed - and they were not well-to-do people either. My family was mostly farmers and labourers, with the occaisional rise up to a trade. They wouldn't dream of looking a state in photographs, especiall if they were taken at a photographers studio for a paid up family or personal portrait.

clothes were important to people then - far more important than to us today. We have the benefit of modern homes and central heating, fans in summer and some have air conditioning. The Victorian poor would have what they could afford to keep them warm, dry, clean, cool, etc. So it stand to reason they would look after their clothes a lot more than we do today, repairing holes and tears, keeping them clean, etc.

Washing could simply be done in the bath. This goes for bed linen too. It was a chore which needed doing to keep out bugs and pests, and stop you stinking horribly - even more so than washing. Anyone who's ever been homeless or been up close with the homeless (sadly at one point I was unlucky enough to be homeless) will know that youre clothes start to stink something awful very quickly, much more so than you do youself.

People who keep this up end up getting pretty ill, and the clothes themselves fall apart. If you have the opportunity you clean them, fix them, or buy (or steal) newer ones. Thrift shops would of course be dotted all round the area.

About the food - other than the fire place, the kettle to swing over it and a table we are no doubt talking about takeaway food. Fish, fruit, pies, etc - all Victorian!

And this is probably why Mary Kelly owed such a high rent when she died - she was getting food and other bits and bobs on the slate as well, or possibly borrowing money, which he simply added to her rent owed.

[Barnaby]

Hi Clare,

I'm in the process of putting together an e-book on life for the common or garden East Ender in the LVP, which will cover more or less everything from cockles to roosters. (And be very grateful I didn't put what I was originally going to put there). It's coffee table format, with lots of pics and odd snippets in, so not exactly William Fishman, but might be of interest.

All proceeds are to being donated to a charity, mainly the Teenage Cancer Trust. (£2 donation.) I'll let everyone know when they're done. It shouldn't be long. I'm ploughing through as we speak!

Please advertise this on the Casebook when it is complete. I would love a copy!

[claire]

That's two connections of East End Victoriana with the Teenage Cancer Trust in two days, Jane, the other being the Wilton's benefit for same that I was reading about last night. Not connected at all?
And I'll definitely have a copy once you're done

[harry]

Glad you had a laugh Jane,usually my posts don't have that affect.
Success with your book,I know it will be good.Although I lived the opposite side of England to London,I believe there would have been a lot in common.As I said,my grandparents were born 1860's,and although our lives overlapped by a good many years,I remember little,but some of the things that come to mind does I think help.I was taught never to enter a house before knocking and being given permission to enter.Whether this was common in London I cannot say,but it might explain why no neighbours discovered Kelly's body,and why the killer might have felt he wouldn't be disturbed.
My grandfather was a plumber by trade,but like other workers,his mornings ritual could be timed almost to the minute.That included using the outside closset,and leaves me to believe that the neighbour of 29 Hanbury St, was telling the truth and could be sure of the time.
I must mention the curious character Johny or Spanish onions.Known by both names.He was a fellow who in the 1930's,in springtime,pushed his bicycle around the streets selling onions.Bunches of them roped together and tied to his bicycle.Said they and himself came all the way from Spain.Claimed to have cycled all the way.Always had a ready answer,and I am sure if anyone had challenged his story and asked how he could have crossed the channel,his reply would have been,"I didn't come that way".He was one of many,all trying to sell something,or mend something.The tac man,the tinkers,the scissors sharpener,all had their day,and would be good for a story.

[Zodiac]

Okay, I've rambled with my usual blend of useless junk, so will quit now

Not useless to me Claire, very helpful actually, thanks

Best wishes,

Zodiac.

[Rubyretro]

put me on the list to buy a copy !!

[Jane Coram]

Hi Clare,

Far from useless ramblings that was a very good post!

Hi Harry,

the latter paid full board which included meals and often use of all facilities(sometimes including the landlords wife

That made me laugh out loud. Thanks for starting my day of with grin.

I'm in the process of putting together an e-book on life for the common or garden East Ender in the LVP, which will cover more or less everything from cockles to roosters. (And be very grateful I didn't put what I was originally going to put there). It's coffee table format, with lots of pics and odd snippets in, so not exactly William Fishman, but might be of interest.

All proceeds are to being donated to a charity, mainly the Teenage Cancer Trust. (£2 donation.) I'll let everyone know when they're done. It shouldn't be long. I'm ploughing through as we speak!

Much love

Janie

xxxx

[Rubyretro]

Such an interesting thread ..!

[claire]

Hi Harry, Jane, all,
Fascinating stuff.
As noted, it's really worth bearing in mind that people who lived at the bottom of the pile simply didn't--don't--have that many belongings. I well recall, myself, having the sum of my belongings in a plastic carrier bag--if you had anything of value, it was wise to sell it, pawn it, or assume it would be stolen. I think we've become so attached to this idea of Mary as being 'a cut above,' on the basis of her having a room. It's worth remembering that, technically, she no longer had the means to rent a room; she was as poor as could be.
The fact that there was nothing in the room but the clothes she'd stood up in and some stale crusts doesn't mean that she was part of a Fenian sleeper cell, or that she bailed out to permit another woman to be murdered in her place. If she was that wily, or that well-connected, her rent would have been paid. The only thing that the paucity of belongings tells us is what we already know--she was poor as hell.
If we are to assume (and I do) that she made more of an effort than many other women in her circumstance, I would suggest that is simply because she had not yet accustomed herself to the desperation of her existence.
A couple of other notes about food...a lot of food stuffs were sold ready-cooked; eg. shellfish and smoked fish (these were cheaper, sold out of B'gate, and popular amongst the costers who could buy them cheap, later in the trading day). And someone else has already mentioned penny-packets of eg. sugar, tea. The point is that one wouldn't have to have access to a stove to eat cooked food at home. Food storage facilities, beyond a cupboard and a table, weren't within the reach of the poor, so it was normal, of course, to buy what you needed on a daily basis--particularly if the money you needed to live was earned on such a daily basis.
Okay, I've rambled with my usual blend of useless junk, so will quit now

[harry]

Thanks for your kind remarks.
The best description of Kelly's situation,is to say it was a bed/sitter existance.Not uncommon then, but much rarer now.On the question of toilet and water,the usual arrangement was that the occupant was allowed the use of the house or building's conveniences.The night time functions was as Jane described.The sitter differed from the lodger situation,in that the latter paid full board which included meals and often use of all facilities(sometimes including the landlords wife).
The gradual spread of the flat or unit accomodation,which began about 1888,took over from the bed/sitter,lodger situation.I guess one could say the bed/sitter occupant had to be very versatile,especially the woman who was expected to do do the cooking and cleaning,and Walter Dew's description of Kelly,seems to imply that as to personel hygiene,she was very proficient.
In addition to the kinds of food I mentioned in an earlier post,there were kippers,Chickelin,Salmon and Shrimp and others not in favour today.Cheap,but appetising,and beneficial.
As Jane says,the good old days,where after 5pm a child could safely play in the streets.

The happiest days of my life,was spent in the arms of another man's wife...........My Mother.

[Marc]

Jane and Harry, great post, almost like being there, thanks !

[Phil H]

Jane

Very good points - a shawl would be particularly useful with winter coming on and cold weather.

Phil

[Jane Coram]

Hi Harry,

Lovely to read your post. Those were the days. Sigh. (Actually daft as it sounds, I really miss them. You knew where you were then and life seemed much simpler!)

Anyway -- Just a bit on burning the clothes. Mary wouldn't have burnt those clothes on the fire, unless she'd gone totally bonkers. The items that Maria left, if pawned, would have just about raised enough to pay off half the debt that Mary owed McCarthy. The pilot coat alone, if it was in reasonable condition would have fetched almost a weeks rent - certainly 4 shillings. The bonnet, perhaps 2 shillings, the shirts 2 shillings and sixpence each, the children's clothes another 2 shillings. Added together, it would have been more than enough to satisfy McCarthy for a bit.

I'm fairly certain that Maria brought them around to Mary so that she could pawn them to get enough to pay the rent. I can't see any other reason she would have taken them there that night. The fact that she left a pawn ticket for a shawl as well is a bit of an added pointer. I suspect that Maria asked Mary to get the shawl out of hock, while she was there, using the money she got from the other clothes.

Much love

Janie

xxxx

[Rubyretro]

Fascinating, Harry..