where did 'Jack' go after his slayings?

[dixon9]

hi

i keep going over this (in my head) where could he have gone to get cleaned up,changed?
I know the doctors on the scene said he could have made sure he was away from the flow of blood from the neck wounds,but surely his hands must have had blood etc on them when taking some of the organs etc.
I am in the camp of a local man(poor man) but this thing about where does he get cleaned up realy does nag me.
So does he wear gloves and just peels them off and dumps them somewhere?
Does he have his own property,not a doss house resident?

Sorry a bit long winded but i just cant get this ?? out of my head.
Please any help

Dixon9
still learning

[bolo]

Hi Dixon,

I don't have my books & papers handy at the moment but do remember a statement of one of the people involved in the investigation to the effect that the murderer probably had a place to live of his own or lived with his people who gave him a certain level of protection.

Then again, there must have been other options for someone who knew the way around the place to find a quiet corner to wash and/or change clothes, that's why I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of a "Jack the dosser".

Regards,

Boris

[Garry Wroe]

Such was this man's familiarity with his stalking grounds, Dixon, that he probably visited the most convenient standpipe or water trough as he made towards his bolt-hole.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[dixon9]

thanks bolo,garry

would there be any chance he left a spare set of clothing in one of the alleyways,or would this be to much going down the 'epic film route?' lol

[Fisherman]

Dixon9 asks:

"would there be any chance he left a spare set of clothing in one of the alleyways,or would this be to much going down the 'epic film route?'"

Considering, Dixon, that the police actually found a rag inside a doorway and connected it to the Ripper, I fail to see that they would let a whole change of clothes - probably bloodied and all - go unnoticed.

The best,
Fisherman

[Garry Wroe]

Overwhelmingly, Dixon, the Ripper-type offender targets those with whom he comes into everyday noncriminal contact. These are the people with whom he feels most comfortable and confident. Given the semi-vagrant lifestyles of his victims, therefore, I think it likely that the Whitechapel Murderer possessed little more than the clothes he stood up in.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[dixon9]

again thanks fisherman/garry


Dixon9
still learning

[bolo]

Hi again,

would there be any chance he left a spare set of clothing in one of the alleyways,or would this be to much going down the 'epic film route?' lol

in my opinion, it would not have been necessary for him to leave a full set of clothes in a secret stash, a single long, dark (and clean) overcoat would have been enough to hide possible blood stains. The LVP East End was a labyrinth of small alleys and byways, there also were lots of stables, unoccupied buildings, etc., read, plenty of options to unsuspiciously drop or pick something up.

Of course that's just speculation, there's no evidence to back up the idea of a secret hideout, at least the house to house enquiries and similar efforts by the police turned up nothing of interest.

Regards,

Boris

[Mycroft]

In my opinion, the only answer is that he had somewhere nearby that he knew it was safe to go to. This means that he must of lived or worked in the immediate area. The suspect that I've read of that fits best with this, is Jacob Levy.He lived nearby, but also had a butchers nearby, which is where I think JtR fled to after murdering. He would have had all he needed to get cleaned up there or could have had a spare set of clothes to get changed into. Maybe he actually wore specific clothes when he "became" the Ripper.Also, it was quite normal for butchers to work in the early hours preparing the meat and who would look twice if the local butcher had some blood on his clothes? Plus ,he would of had a good selection of knives to choose from,which could simply be put back in their normal place, without any suspicion . To me ,it all fits.Many regards.

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

I think you'd get a different answer to this question from every single person on the boards, depending on who their suspect is (if they have one). I'm a 'generic, poor, local' kind of girl, so I'd probably say that he just rolled up his sleeves to avoid getting blood on them, and sluiced off in a water butt or trough afterwards -- then went to sleep in the nearest door way or empty warehouse.

Unless he had a good reason for carrying a knife around with him -- i.e he was a slaughterer, then he would have had somewhere to hide the knife. Incidentally Jimmy Mumford, when interviewed after Polly's murder said that the men at Barber's didn't take their knives home with them, and that seems to be standard for the time -- so if Jack were found walking around with a butcher's knife, he would have had some explaining to do -- even if he did work at a knackers or slaughteryard!

He'd be wearing black clothes anyway if he was a working local -- almost every poor bloke did -- and the blood wouldn't have shown on them anyway. A great many of the locals stank, so no-one would really have noticed. Slaughtermen and knackers almost always wore blue and white uniforms for work (obviously with a few exceptions), so would not have had blood on their usual clothes outside work.

Another bit of totally useless information that might be of interest: (I really do have too much time on my hands. Lol)

In the 1888, most people in the area got their water from a mains water supply. How lovely -- nice running water all the time, just turn on the tap and watch the water pour out in a torrent. I think not.

The water companies turned on the water for two hours at a time, three days a week, and under the lowest pressure imaginable. It would literally dribble out of the standpipe. The locals had to collect the water somehow and store it for the times they had none. They used mainly open water butts -- Which meant that there were literally hundreds of water butts in the area; in every alley, court and yard. Jack wouldn't have had much trouble finding somewhere to wash up after a killing.

I just don't want to think about the poor buggers that might have gone there to get water for their morning cup of tea.

Hugs

Jane

xxx

[DYLAN]

Hi all.

For me the answer's simple.

The Ripper had a safe and secure bolt-hole not far away from his crimes, in Kings Bench Walk.

It's a view I've held for nearly fifty years of studying the case, and I'm not going to change that view now.

Of course, there will be a lot of dissenters here, but as we are never likely to see this mystery solved, one person's opinion is as good as any other's.

All the best everyone.
DYLAN

[Abby Normal]

hi

i keep going over this (in my head) where could he have gone to get cleaned up,changed?
I know the doctors on the scene said he could have made sure he was away from the flow of blood from the neck wounds,but surely his hands must have had blood etc on them when taking some of the organs etc.
I am in the camp of a local man(poor man) but this thing about where does he get cleaned up realy does nag me.
So does he wear gloves and just peels them off and dumps them somewhere?
Does he have his own property,not a doss house resident?

Sorry a bit long winded but i just cant get this ?? out of my head.
Please any help

Dixon9
still learning

Hi Dixon
Great question-I have also wondered about this alot and the only conclusion I can come to is that JtR must have had a private place to go to-either it being his own room/residence and/or place of business. He was described by most witnesses as being at least respectfully dressed, and most experts beleive that the days the crimes ocurred meant he was employed so IMHO he could afford his own place. Also, i don't think he could have gone unnoticed after his crimes for so long if he did not have somewhere private to clean up, change clothes, hide out, keep his knife/knives, store organs etc.

I definetly think he was local but not so poor that he did not have his own place.

[Ben]

Hi Abby,

"He was described by most witnesses as being at least respectfully dressed"

I'd respectfully beg to differ here. We don't even know that the "he" in question was the actual murderer, and it's far from the case that "most witnesses" described a man of respectable appearance. I'm not sure quite how we get from an acceptance that the ripper was employed in some capacity to a belief that he must have had his own private residence. In fact, private quarters were a comparative rarity for the district in that time period, and the overwhelming majority of working men lived in shared accommodation. I don't think it is quite appreciated just how unusual it would have been for a "local" to have "had his own place" in the area in which the ripper was operating.

Knives can be stored in coats, and innards can be consumed (as opposed to "stored") in doss house kitchens that were not patrolled by night watchmen or doormen during the small hours of the night - thus erasing the validity of at least two objections to the Jack-as-Dosser hypothesis. Some establishments also provided cubicle-cabins to eradicate the problem of prying eyes and nosey neighbours, not that there would have been any huge onus for the ripper to have "cleaned up" after an activity that would not have sullied the outer garments to any appreciable extent.

Cheers,
Ben

[Mycroft]

To Ben,
So where did he go?You haven't answered the question. I think that in answering this question, people should name their suspect and propose the means of their suspects escape. To me , he wasn't a dosser, he still would have had to pay his doss and pass "the doorman" with blood on his hands.I'm sure that at whatever hour, there would have been some activity at the doss house and the risk would have been to great. He had to have somewhere safe to retreat to, where he knew he was away from prying eyes, where he could transcend from "Ripper" to civilian.My main problem with your dossers theory is that I think that JtR was a bit snobbish. I think that he looked down on the lower classes, he had contempt for their way of life and felt that he wasn't one of them, although he may of had lowly origins. I think that he did have his own place to retreat to, because he had his own business in the area and considered himself to be middle classed(the worst snobs).I don't see, with all the increased police patrols, how he could have evaded capture, without a planned means of local escape and I feel sure that he would have planned somewhere he could contemplate his deeds in a solitary,safe manner.

[kensei]

Closely related to this question of course is the one about just how much blood Jack would have had on him after each crime. Much has been said about how it wouldn't have to be that much if he positioned himself so that the blood flowed away from him, etc. But I've always begged to differ, and I've shared my thoughts on this here a few times before. If he was actually reaching into the bodies to pull out organs, obviously his hands would be very bloody, and from that point I compare it to having to change a flat tire while wearing clean clothes. Do you really think you could manage to remain spotless in that situation? There are practicalities to it- it's way too easy to have a sudden itch or whatever and transfer grease, or in Jack's case blood, to just about anywhere on you, including even the face.

But having said that, I agree with those who've said that blood on dark clothing doesn't show that much, especially at night, and that if he simply took off the overcoat seen by witnesses before beginning the mutilations he could have easily used it to cover himself afterwards. With Mary Kelly, who would have presented a major bloodstain problem for him, I've always tended to picture him undressing at least to being shirtless while he worked on her since he had the indoor privacy, both for sexual gratification and to avoid bloodstained clothes.

But as for the subject of where he went after the murders, I agree with those who think he had a private home somewhere in the East End, though the area covered by the murders could still have presented him with a quite long and nervous walk to make his way home. (But then the Double Event convinces me that he got off on this and was an adrenaline junkie.) My three favorite suspects are: One, someone never named, a complete wild card. Two, William Bury, who did have a home somewhere with his wife. And Three, James Kelly, who was an escaped fugitive at the time and could have been holed up just about anywhere.