Visiting London

[lemonjelly]

Hello all,

I hope to be visiting London for a number of days this year. In anticipation of this visit I'm after tips for areas of interest/significance to visit.

I shall, naturally be taking a ripper tour (with the professionals )

However I'm seeking opinions on additional places to visit/see, or places where the tours spend little time which may be worth spending time at, or anything else.

I am open to other suggestions.

In addition, I'd be keen to be made aware of good/recommended bookshops, particularly where good & worthwhile ripper related books are available for purchase.

I thank you all in anticipation of your kindness & co-operation.

[tnb]

Lemonjelly,

I am currently working on a documentary and book which will take viewers/readers on 'tours' of Whitechapel and the surrounding area, taking in not only 'Ripper' and WM sites but other elements of the area's history - the book will also take in other areas of London such as Kennington, Southwark, Waterloo, Temple and Blackfriars (one walk) and Borough and Bermondsey (another) - lots of Catherine Eddowes/ Annie Phillips and Frances Coles related stuff south of the river, plus a great deal more history to boot. Those two come to mind as they are the ones I have been working on today, although they are also the most 'Ripper' heavy - I also have a Greenwich, Deptford and Lewisham walk but there is very little 'Jack' history in that area (that is, I haven't found any yet!)

I am not sure quite what you are looking for in your recommendations - I am sure you are aware that there is not a great deal of extant stuff to see from 1888, particularly in the key areas unfortunately. There are also a great deal of more knowledgable people than me on here who will no doubt come up with some excellent suggestions. Therefore, I will not be so bold as to foist my work on you yet - but if this sounds like the kind of thing you might find useful on your trip then please feel free to PM me and I will be happy to send you my works in progress - indeed your feedback would quite possibly be invaluable.

As I say though, the ball is in your court - and I will take no offence if you do not take up the offer. Can't blame a man for trying as they say!

Yours,

Trevor.

[kensei]

Hi lemonjelly,

I visited in Sept. of '08 and found it is possible to do a very comprehensive solo Ripper tour in one day. I started at Whitechapel tube station at 7:15 in the morning and visited the Polly Nicholls murder site (which is very creepy and which most professional tours don't include), then went on to the Chapman, Tabram, Smith, Coles, Stride, Eddowes and Kelly murder sites as well as the old Commercial Street Police Station, the Goulston Street grafitto site, Chistchurch and the Ten Bells, all on foot. A couple of train rides then took me to Mary Kelly's gravesite at Leytonstone Cemetery, and Nicholls' and Eddowes' graves in the City of London Cemetery where I finished up at around 4:30 in the afternoon. (Didn't have sufficient information or time for the other graves.) My feet were definitely not happy at the end of that day but other than that it was well worth the effort.

[Adam Went]

Hey LJ,

I've not been to London myself yet so I can't offer you much in terms of actual directions, but if you're interested in the history of London in general, not just Jack the Ripper, perhaps you could visit Pudding Lane, where the Great Fire of London started in 1666? I understand it's a shopping area these days but the lane does still exist.....and perhaps the Lyceum Theatre?

Those would probably be my 2 best suggestions, aside from the obvious places....

Cheers,
Adam.

[Observer]

Hi tnb

Would the Grenwich, Deptford, Lewisham tour take in the site of Deptford Strand, murder site of Christopher Marlowe, Elibabethan genius? He's buried somewhere in the churchyard of St Nicholas Deptford.

all the best

Observer

[tnb]

Hi tnb

Would the Grenwich, Deptford, Lewisham tour take in the site of Deptford Strand, murder site of Christopher Marlowe, Elibabethan genius? He's buried somewhere in the churchyard of St Nicholas Deptford.

all the best

Observer

Indeed it will - in fact Marlowe was the very reason I wanted to do a walk in the area, although it's a great area as well obviously. You may just have become my favourite poster by the way for mentioning dear old Kit! Deptford Strand (as you may know) is now a riverside housing development, albeit a rather lovely one - needless to say nothing survives from 1593. But yes the walk will take it in - as well as St Nicholas' churchyard:

[Observer]

Hi tnb

Yes I've been down there, nothing remains as you say, it's still thought provoking though to think Kit Marlowe met his untimely end in that area. Have you read Mei Trow's book on Kit Marlowe? His JTR effort did not go down very well here in Casebook did it? The Kit Marlowe book isn't bad, but it's a bit annoying the way he puts the boot in to Shakespeare at every opportunity.

Kit Marlowe of course at one time lived in Norton Folgate, on the fringes of the East End. Norton Folgate joins Bishopgate Street, and Shoreditch High Street.

And of course the infamous brawl between Kit Marlowe, and William Bradley, which ended in Bradley's death at the hand of Thomas Watson took place in Hog Lane, now Worship Street, which runs westwards from Norton Folgate.

A greater loss to English literature can not be imagined. The anniverary of his death taked place on the 30th May, a week Sunday.

all the best

Observer

[tnb]

Observer,

It is indeed quite a moment to stand in Deptford Strand. I have not read Trow's book yet (nor his 'Ripper' effort, either) although I have had 'Who Killed Kit Marlowe' on my Amazon 'wish list' for some time now. I am personally a big fan of both Charles Nicholls' 'The Reckoning' and (to a slightly lesser extent) Park Honan's 'Christopher Marlowe: Poet and Spy'. Neither of those books feel the need to make constant reference to Shakespeare, which if Trow's book does then I must say that puts me off a little in advance. Too many authors seem to suggest Marlowe is only relevant either in opposition to Shakespeare or as part of some ridiculous conspiracy. It is a shame. One comparison I will make, perhaps somewhat hypocritically, is that the lack of cultural importance afforded to Marlowe compared to Shakespeare has always seemed mightily unfair to me - and I have nothing against Shakespeare, but in Stratford-on-Avon we have the Shakespeare birthplace museum, his old school and another house perfectly preserved, the memorial in situ in the church (plus a lot of commercial tat)...whereas Marlowe's birthplace and the place he was killed have both been demolished entirely, and his grave is unmarked. It hardly seems right.

I had originally wanted to include Norton Folgate (where Marlowe lived for a time) and Worship St in my Whitechapel, Spitalfields and Shadwell walk but geography and time - it is already over 5 miles - dictated otherwise. I have hopes of including them at the end of whichever walk ends up taking in Farringdon and Moorgate- ideally all the walks will potentially dovetail with each other, something akin to a giant jigsaw puzzle, ie. Lambeth and Waterloo ends where Southwark and Bermondsey begins, not far from where Greenwich and Deptford begins, etc etc, so that people can combine individual walks or parts of walks as they see fit. I will likely have two walks crossing the river - one via Blackfriar's Bridge (heading towards the wonderfully atmospheric Temple area and also Holborn, one of my favourite parts of North London) and the other via the Greenwich Foot Tunnel.

I shall be marking Sunday week on my website - it is good to know someone else will be thinking of the great man too. I was lucky enough to catch a performance of 'Dido, Queen of Carthage' while in London last year and it was literally awe inspiring.

Well blow me, we've turned this into a literary thread. Apologies, all - business as usual!

[Phil Carter]

Hello LJ,

If visiting London, especially between May and August, there are two, non-jtr related places I would recommend. Take a day to travel West on the underground, take a visit to Hampton Court Palace, a place full of history and some of the most beautiful gardens in London. The Palace itself is stunning, both inside and outside, the courtyards and the gardens are superb, with the fact that every chimney on every roof of the Palace is different!

There is also a little known place (for those from outside the area) in one of the Royal Parks, in Richmond Park. There, a wonderful place called the Isabella Plantations lies. A small, wooded area, secluded, fenced off and protected, it is charmingly beautiful. A walk through the park down into Richmond itself is lovely. Here, the hustle and bustle of everyday life melts away.

The links are below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Court_Palace

http://www.hrp.org.uk/HamptonCourtPalace/stories/hamptoncourtgardens.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Park

http://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/richmond_park/isabella_plantation.cfm

A little PS.. Should you go to the famous maze at Hampton Court, the first four turnings are left, left, left, right....after that you are on your own! (I cannot remember the rest!)...edit..apparently this has changed since I was a small lad..so ignore this advice!

Have a lovely time on your visit to London!

best wishes

Phil

[tnb]

Good tips Phil - two of my favourite places in London there as it happens (along with Upton Park obviously). Remember LJ*- if you are Hampton/ Richmond way you are also a short bus ride from the National Archives! Lots of goodies there as I'm sure you know.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Trevor,

This was the area I lived in, West London, for many years in my younger days.
The NA at Kew require a day in itself, but yes, a short bus ride from Richmond.

If lunching in Richmond LJ, down by the river, near Richmond Bridge, is a superb pub called the White Cross. Memories, memories!

best wishes

Phil

[tnb]

I know the White Cross well, Phil - and would definitely echo your recommendation. I once spent an afternoon 'flooded-in' there, with a swan circling my table - it was all a bit surreal actually!

Although born in Croydon and brought up mostly in North London, my parents moved to Kew not long after I moved out and so that now tends to be our base when we visit London these days. Small world, eh? I see what you mean about the Archives, in terms of serious research - I just thought maybe if LJ had a spare couple of hours if he(?) was that way then it might be worth a quick registration for the thrill of holding a few original documents. Whet the appetite for next time!

My only (non West London) other suggestion for now would be that if LJ feels like getting up early one day (and I mean early) then sunrise over Smithfield Meat Market (officially called London Central Meat Markets, or something like that) is quite an experience - and after a good breakfast in the cafes that open early for the traders you're only a 30 minute or so walk from the western edge of 'Ripperland' - Bishopsgate. As I'm sure Andrew Firth would agree, Christ Church in the early morning is pretty special.

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi LJ

I sometimes take guests on informal tours of London and you might like to try this tour which if nothing else would be time efficient:

Underground to Westminster Station where you can check out Big Ben, the House of Commons and Westminster Abbey. Then eastwards up Parliament Street and Whitehall where you can see Downing Street and the Guardsmen on their horses. Then hey presto you're in Trafalgar Square. Turn left and go through Admiralty Arch and up The Mall if you want to see Buckingham Palace. Back in Trafalgar Square have a wander round the National Gallery (free entry and one of the world's great art galleries) on the north side of the square. Then north up Haymarket to see Piccadilly Circus and then you might want to experience Chinatown which is something to see and very close (just ask someone for directions). From there, if you still have energy left you might want to wander up Charing Cross Road to Tottenham Court Road Station which has the British Museum (again free entry) nearby. It's not every day one can get to see genuine Egyptian mummies. If you want I can give you another itinery through the City of London and from there to 3 or 4 Ripper sites which you won't get to see on a regular Ripper tour.

[lemonjelly]

Many thanks to all who have taken the time to reply!

t'n'b my trip hasn't been fully booked yet, however if I contact you when(if) it does (august) I'd happily assist.

I appreciate a lack of information in the initial post. A selection of things I am thinking about visiting/doing are as follows - they may help with suggestions:

Will walk around Trafalger sq/Nelsons column/Whitehall/Downing st/etc.

Would like to wander around the square mile/city of london/tower of london/st pauls.

a walk past the old bailey/smithfield & museum of london.

The bank of england.

The blind beggar pub.

The imperial war museum.

Possibly go on the london eye.

the globe theatre & tate modern.

The london dungeons.

Hyde park/marble arch/speakers corner/tyburn/wellington arch/apsley house.

Science museum/natural history museum.

Museum of brands, advertising & packaging.

The school of life.

Please keep any suggestions coming folks!

best wishes all

[kensei]

A few further bits of advice-

When going on the London Eye, booking in advance cuts down significantly on your time standing in line. It is a half hour of spectacular views, but not something I would call a must-see.

Don't forget that the British Museum of Natural History and the Victoria and Albert Museum are literally right next to each other, both of them free of charge- that's a package deal that may be unequaled anywhere else in the world.

And when taking in the Hyde Park area, remember that on the opposite end from Marble Arch and Speaker's Corner lie the Diana memorial fountain and Kensington Palace where Diana lived. Seems a shame to leave those places out.