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  • Undergarments

    All,

    I raise a point I would CERTAINLY like to see discussed.

    I would find it AMAZING that any woman would only have ONE pair of undergarments. However poor they were. Because of menstruation.

    How many pairs of undergarments did MJK own? How many were found amongst her belongings? In her "home"?


    best wishes

    Phil
    Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


    Justice for the 96 = achieved
    Accountability? ....

  • #2
    Phil,

    Am I mistaken or did some of the C5 have no undergarments whatsoever?

    Yours truly
    Washington Irving:

    "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

    Stratford-on-Avon

    Comment


    • #3
      Exactly Corey...EXACTLY!

      best wishes

      Phil
      Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


      Justice for the 96 = achieved
      Accountability? ....

      Comment


      • #4
        Phil,

        I dunno how much undergarments cost in 1888, so I bet the reason to them having NO undergarments would be of these two.

        1)Poor.
        2)didn't use them because it would be easier to work as a prostitute without them.

        I would think the reason would be No.2.

        Yours truly
        Washington Irving:

        "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

        Stratford-on-Avon

        Comment


        • #5
          From the victim's section of this site,

          Nichols
          Flannel drawers
          Chapman
          No mention
          Stride
          No mention
          Eddowes
          Specifically mentions no undergarments
          Kelly
          No mention
          Regards Mike

          Comment


          • #6
            Corey,

            Have a look at what Eddowes carried around. Hardly items that "makes things easier"..she was carrying half a shop!

            Also, these women were NOT full time Prostitutes all... Eddowes, Stride for example.

            It is NOT normal for a woman to NOT posess undergarments, especially in one's own home (Kelly), in cold November (Kelly) when one is def of the age to have menstruation periods (Kelly and others)

            Look at the items in Kelly's room. Nothing, Corey, nothing that shows an alternative change of garments at all! Two items of CHILDREN'S clothing, one male, one female... ummm.. guess what it tells me about Kelly's home? You mean to say that this woman walked around day after day, week after week, month after month, with NO CLOTHES to change into? She would have stank to high heaven!

            best wishes

            Phil

            Nothing for her week of menstruation. No extra squares of material, nothing.
            Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


            Justice for the 96 = achieved
            Accountability? ....

            Comment


            • #7
              Hello Mike,

              Many thanks!

              best wishes

              Phil
              Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


              Justice for the 96 = achieved
              Accountability? ....

              Comment


              • #8
                Phil,

                I know this isn't likely but what if the Ripper took the undergarments?

                Just a thought.

                p.s You are right, they would have stank to heaven. whew! How did the Ripper do it?
                Washington Irving:

                "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                Stratford-on-Avon

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by corey123 View Post
                  p.s You are right, they would have stank to heaven. whew! How did the Ripper do it?
                  You and I might think they smell by todays standards, but back then the odour could have been considered the norm for such a social class.
                  Regards Mike

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi all

                    If I remember rightly isn't this when the members of Parliment took to soaking the curtains in chlorine as the smell of the Thames was so bad, with all teh raw sewage flowing directly into it?

                    Tj
                    It's not about what you know....it's about what you can find out

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi, found this on wapedia - Wiki. This is part of the article.

                      Until the birth of disposable pads, women used a variety of sewn or makeshift pads made from a variety of fabrics, often leftover scraps, to collect menstrual blood, although some women have used anything absorbent, including grass to collect menstrual blood. [2] Fabrics could generally be washed and used again. Some women, mostly ones living in rural areas or from a low socio-economic status, did not use anything to collect menstrual blood. [7] It was believed that they left a trail of blood behind them. When disposable pads were introduced, they were too expensive for many women to afford.

                      GRASS!
                      Hard to imagine how people used to live and this is the norm to them.
                      Lucky its not like that now!

                      The cost of living in 1888. Doesn't show undergarments but gives us an idea.
                      Clothing
                      Item /S/d
                      1 overcoat 1/15/0
                      1 umbrella -/7/6
                      1 hat -/2/6
                      1 silk hat -/7/6
                      1 week-day suit 2/0/0
                      1 Sunday suit 2/10/0
                      1 pair socks -/1-/10
                      1 pair boots -/10/6
                      repairing boots -/6/0
                      1 under vest -/2/6
                      1 flannel shirt -/3/0
                      1 collar -/-/5
                      1 pair cuffs -/-/8
                      cutton, buttons -/0/1


                      x Looby
                      Last edited by looby64; 01-24-2010, 10:24 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello tji,

                        The problem of the Thames, the smell and the sewers, came to a head in the 1860's I believe.

                        best wishes

                        Phil
                        Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                        Justice for the 96 = achieved
                        Accountability? ....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hello Phil,

                          In Kelly's case, we don't know what was burned in the fire. As far as clothes, the women wore all that they had. They dressed in layers and took everything with them because they didn't know where they might call home on a given night.
                          Now, Kelly did have a room and should have had more clothes, including undergarments, but, again, we don't know what was burned in the fire.
                          I'm only able to go by what I've learned about 19th century American practices, but women that were on their "period" cut rags and pinned them to a linen belt or the botton of their stays. You will notice that all of the victims killed outdoors were carring rags- hence the term " on the rag". These rags were probably used to "clean up" after a business session as well.
                          Though some may have only been part time prostitutes, they were likely pursuing that trade on the nights they were killed and couldn't be hampered with a garment that had to be pulled down to the ankles. I know it seems surreal to us now, but their's was a different world. Many of these people had lice. Even a scratch could turn septic because of the bacteria that was always present.
                          Best Wishes,
                          Hunter
                          ____________________________________________

                          When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Looks like Looby answered most of the question well enough. Got my post in late.
                            Best Wishes,
                            Hunter
                            ____________________________________________

                            When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hunter, Looby,

                              An excellent comment from you both. Thank you.
                              The only question in your entire posting I will question is the presumption of what we do not know as fact... what was burnt on the fire. It becomes a negative supposition.
                              However, your other comments are excellent, and worthy of consideration.

                              best wishes

                              Phil
                              Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                              Justice for the 96 = achieved
                              Accountability? ....

                              Comment

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