Ripper-tour with Henry Moore

[Garry Wroe]

Hi Phil.

Yes, there was a substantial facility on Wentworth Street used to incinerate refuse and said to deposit ash continually for miles around.

When we were underway Mr. Moore told us that he had been at Brighton enjoying the sea bathing when he was suddenly recalled to proceed with the inquiry of this new crime, for in the previous year, he had succeeded in establishing the identity of a woman murdered in the same circumstances on 9 November 1888.

I rather suspect that 'this new crime' is the operative term here. In other words, Moore was recalled from Brighton as a consequence of the torso discovery.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Phil Carter]

Hello David, Gary,

The reference to Brighton you point out, is correct.. but my other point is here..

"......When this visit was over, Mr. Swanson, whose attention was required by other matters, entrusted us to the care of Mr. Henry Moore, CID Inspector, and we set off on our way.
When we were underway Mr. Moore told us that he had been at Brighton enjoying the sea bathing when he was suddenly recalled to proceed with the inquiry of this new crime, for in the previous year, he had succeeded in establishing the identity of a woman murdered in the same circumstances on 9 November 1888.
Jane Kelly had been cut into a number of pieces by her killer who had pleased himself by scattering them in various places. The Thames had received her head, and thanks to his initiative and his patience, Mr. Moore had succeeded in establishing the identity of the victim.
This had not led to the killer being discovered, but at least a little satisfaction was had by this discovery.

with best wishes, as always

Phil

[jason_c]

Lost in translation perhaps?

Not only the translation on this thread but the original 1888 translation as well.

[DVV]

Phil,

what is your other point ?
I personally just can imagine some confusion between different cases...as usual in press reports.
Imo, there are much more interesting points in the article: a "new" Jewish-theory, Jack-the-Dosser...

Amitiés,
David

edit : merci à Chris Scott. Magnifique traduction. Vous devez parler supérieurement le français, pour paraphraser le texte...!

[Phil Carter]

Hello David,

Here we have an important load of quotes from one of if not THE man in charge of the case, and he can't remember the difference between Kelly's death and unforgettable mutilation, and a headless Torso?

Please... lost in translation?

I'm sorry.. I have seen excuse after excuse brought up on these boards for policemen AFTER the fact all spreading complete bull... and this is yet another example of it.

When oh when will somebody see that this is DELIBERATE!

All these people can't ALL be going down different alleyways in an attempt to "answer" the murders. That's ok with one or two, but the policeman in charge in this article can't even remember the CASE!

A headless Kelly? , her head fished from the Thames, 9th November. Jane Kelly.

Not lost in translation. It's another piece of disinformation to create CONFUSION to stop anyone getting near the real scenario. It was done deliberately, and went on and on and on.

Even today... more reasons for what is becoming very very obvious to more and more people.

And it will carry on and on.

best wishes

Phil

[jason_c]

So we have disinformation about information already in the public domain e.g. Kelly's head was not found in the Thames.

[Phil Carter]

Jason,
With the utmost respect,
It isn't the ONLY example of it happening is it?

And it doesn't explain why the man SUPPOSEDLY in charge of the Whitechapel murders case CAN'T remember the difference between MJK's disgusting, all body mutilations, and a Torso with a missing head? And then on top of his "entrails hanging over the chair" stuff in 1889?

That went to an American newspaper. Can't lose that in translation.

best wishes

Phil

[DVV]

Phil,

I admit the confusion is shocking.
But can't it be Bois-Glavy's confusion, or a bit of sensationalism on his behalf ?
Remember the article has been written 18 months after the Ripper-tour with Moore...
Anyway, I'll wait and see...

For the time being, if I had to baulk at something here, it would be at the suggestion that the Ripper victims were not killed where they have been found. This is definitely shocking.

Amitiés,
David

[Phil Carter]

Hello David,

There is MUCH in that article which raises eyebrows...and I agree on your point as well. It raises ENORMOUS questions. Least of all, if the "man in charge" of the case thought of this, or gave the impression to the writer, or the writer interpreted the facts that way, we have enormous problems.

What the hell CAN we, or DO we believe in this entire case?

Because the entire top brass of the Police have spread different ideas about the whole blasted scenario!

That raises one very very important question.

WHY?

best wishes

Phil

[Howard Brown]

This report that I found a year and a half ago from 1899 upon the retirement of Moore ( reported to R.Harding Davis of Philadelphia ) provides Moore's opinion on the "sailor theory" that was afloat ( a sailor joke...) within the police department at the time of the murders.

Additional comments by Wolf Vanderlinden found here:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=48380&highlight=inspector+henry+moore#post48380

************************
Philadelphia Inquirer
Nov. 16,1899
Page Nine
LONDON DAY BY DAY
DETECTIVE MOORE,MOST CELEBRATED
OF ALL SCOTLAND YARD MEN RETIRES.....
SOME OF HIS GREATEST CASES
MISSPELLING OF A NAME GAVE CLUE TO
MURDERER AND A WHISTLE LED TO AN ARREST.


London,Oct 30-
Scotland Yard is a name to conjure with among readers who are fond of
detective stories and when detective stories are real,most people have
a fancy for them.
Scotland Yard has just lost the services of its chief "Detective Inspector"
Henry Moore, who has retired on a pension-said to be the largest ever granted
by the Yard authorities-after over thirty years of work as a human sleuthhound.
And therby hangs not one tale, but many, and of the many I pass one or two along.
Perhaps as smart a bit of work in the detective line as Mr. Moore ever did was his capture of a very clever French criminal and murderer named Ravellot. Toward the close of September some five years ago two foreigners took rooms at the Hotel des Vrais Amis in Old Compton street,Soho, the French quarter of London. One was an elderly man, a Spanish priest, known as Father Sequi, while the other was a young Frenchman, the reverend father's secretary and valet. After being in London a short time Father Sequi told several of his friends that Ravelott did not like England and was about to return to France. "I shall be sorry to lose him, he is so kind to me, and I can hardly get on without him", remarked the reverend gentleman., Ravelott himself also announced that he was going to return to France and a few days later it was thought, as he was not seen, that he had done so. A day or so afterward one of the chambermaids, on entering Father Sequi's apartment was horrified to discover that he had committed suicide by hanging himself from the bed post. The police and a doctor were sent for and the latter expressed the opinion that it was a case of suicide: that the dead man had tied a large silk handkerchief round his neck,then attached it to tthe bed post, and sliding off, strangled himself. This opinion was confirmed, for in his pocket was a letter giving his reasons and stating how he intended to accomplish his object. The would be suicide signed the letter in his real name,Louis Gabriel. This matter, however, came before Scotland Yard, owing to the fact that some few hundreds of francs a letter of credit known to be in the possessions of the suicide had disappeared. Mr. Moore went carefully over the details and made experiments with the silk handkerchief round his own neck, but he failed to place himself in the strange position in which the dead priest was found., and he refused to believe in the theory of suicide. Then of course, he was brought face to face with the letter left by the deceased man. That, everybody said, was the one great stumbling block to the theory of murder. After something like thirty six hours thought, he, Mr. Moore, wired to Spain to the bankers where the deceased priest had obtained the cash and the letter of credit and asked that they would telegraph the actual letters in the signature of the dead man when he signed the reciept for the money he recieved. He got the banker's reply early the next morning and from that knew that Father Sequi had been murdered. Ravelott had returned to France, and, so far as appearances went, had left his master alive and well. It was true he had been dealing with the letter of credit, but he did it openly because his master gave it to him before he left. The said Ravelott was in Toulon and Mr.Moore directed the French police to find some excuse to detain him until he arrived. A cafe proprietor, friendly with the police, had a few words with Ravelott,with the result that the ex-secretary and valet was given into custody on some petty charge. The next day Mr. Moore arrived and sought an interview with the prisoner. " I have," said Mr. Moore, "been looking all over England for you. I want to hand you the property left by your late master, Father Sequi. I'd better get you out of this and then we can go to the Consul and sign the necessary papers. Its is not much to hand over, only a few hundred francs and some clothes, but I must take your reciept for them". Mr. Moore then spoke to the officials and it was explained to them that it was necessary that Ravelott should be released; and forthwith he was let out and the pair went to a cafe.

"I was so glad to see you,sir", said Ravelott. " I do so much want to know all about the suicide of Father Sequi. I must have left London just a few hours before he did it."
"Oh, yes," said Mr.Moore, " if you had stayed with him he would probably still be alive. But to business; here I have the money, which I will count for you, and here is the form; you must fill it in. First write your own name."
Ravelott quite calmly wrote down his name and address and the district where he was born.
"Fill in the name of your master," said Mr. Moore.
The man wrote Father Sequi.
"But," said Moore, "what was his proper name?"
"Oh," said Ravelott," yes, I know it," and he wrote "Louis Gabriel".
Mr. Moore picked up the document, looked at it carefully, and then said,jingling the money, "Hold out your hands," and before Ravelott quite realized what had happened he found a pair of handcuffs on his wrists.
As has been said, the dead priest was a Spaniard. and when Mr. Moore found the letter left by the suicide was signed, "Louis Gabriel", he remembered that the Spanish do not used the letter "o" in Louis, and acting on the suspicion that the dead man knew how to spell his own name, he came to the conclusion that the priest could not either have written the letter or signed it, because if he had he would have signed it "Luis Gabriel".
When Ravelott was tried-the trial being in France- a very curious scene too place. A lay figure such as is used by artists was brought into court, and placed on a bed on a table right in front of the dock and the judge. Mr Moore then proceeded to demonstrate how Ravelott murdered his master. He first made him helplessly intoxicated, and whilst he was asleep in the bed he put the silk handkerchief around his neck,tied it to the bedpost,and, lifting the bed up, rolled the drunken man off on the floor, where he was soon strangled. Then he sat down and wrote the suicide letter.
Ravelott watched him with a feverish look that told too plainly the terrible ordeal through which he was passing. When the detective came to the part where the bed was tilted up, he took hold of the left hand side, whereupon,to the surprise of everyone in court, the prisoner involuntarily exclaimed, " Pardon me, it was the right side I rolled him off." Ravelott just escaped the guillotine and was sentenced to imprisonment for life.
***********************************

Perhaps the greatest regret Mr. Moore has is that he failed to run to earth the murderer Jack The Ripper.
"The police." he says, "were terribly handicapped in their work. It was almost impossible to obtainanything like a reliable statement,whilst every crank in England was sending postcards or writing on walls. The class of women we had to deal with would have told any number of stories for a shilling, and it was impossible to believe any woman owing to the hysterical state of fear they got themselves into. If we had attempted to keep under observation the persons we were told were jack the Rippers, we should have wanted every soldier in the British Army to have become a detective. We have in the East End foreigners from every corner of the earth, and when they hate they will tell such lies as would make your hair stand up. Of course, everyone wants to know who Jack The Ripper was. Well,so far as I can make out, he was a mad foreign sailor,who paid periodical visits to London on board ship. He committed the crimes and then went back to his ship and remembered nothing about them. The class of the victims made the work of the police most difficult. Why,once I had occasion to stand near the arch in Pinchin street, Whitechapel, and I remarked, "This is just the place for Jack The Ripper," and sure enough,some few months later a Ripper body was found there in a sack. I may, one of these days,now I have more leisure to work, and before I die, have the luck to see Jack The Ripper standing on the dock of the Old Bailey. Its the only failure I ever had,but I'm not at all sure it is a failure yet."
Mr. Moore has always been regarded by his superior officers, his fellow sleuths and also by the criminal classes, as a perfectly honest and upright man, and the fairness of his testimony has never been impeached. He is, indeed, rather more proud of a letter written by a convicted criminal than he is of one sent him by the Home Secretary-a member of the English Cabinet- for while the letter was in flattering terms, the criminal wrote to the judge who was about to sentence him that Mr. Moore's evidence had been "absolutely impartial".
He will,I believe, continue to be a private detective, and some big cases should come his way.
M.MacM,3rd

[DVV]

Thanks for posting this, Howard.
I was pleased to see Moore in Toulon (my native town).
As suggested by the 1891 French press report, it seems that he never fell into the Jewish trap.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

"Its the only failure I ever had,but I'm not at all sure it is a failure yet."[/SIZE]

Amazing words... Somehow in Anderson's style...

Amitiés all,
David

[Phil Carter]

Hello David,

Have you any more beauties from the French newspaper archives?

I look forward to more like the ones you have posted!

best wishes

Phil

[DVV]

Hi Phil,

thanks so much.
I'm currently searching and copying all I can find at the Bibliothèque Nationale de France.
It's quite a long task, but be sure I'd share everything as soon as possible.
Frankly spoken, this article is one of the more interesting I've come across so far.
That said, although articles could be more or less fascinating, "Jack the Ripper in the French press" would be an interesting subject...at least I hope...!

I sincerely appreciate your encouragement, Phil... ça fait chaud au coeur - vraiment...

Amitiés,
David

[Phil Carter]

Hello David,

I have ben doing the same here, but the decent articles are few and far between. There was some stuff in the Swedish and Norwegian newspapers around the Stride murder (naturally enough), but "interviews" with policemen etc, ...nothing so far.

Good hunting!

best wishes

Phil