How Busy Where the Streets during the Ripper murders?

[JackDaw]

Hi there!

How busy where the streets around the murder locations at the time's of the murders?

Before I started reading the casebook site I'd imagined that they were quiet and deserted but it seems that people were always coming and going to work or coming back to their lodgings or whatever.
Was there a set time for pubs to close at? When did the trains and trams stop operating for the night?

I'm just trying to get a sense of how the Ripper could blend into the surroundings.

Another question has to do with animals: was there lots of dogs and animals roaming about on the streets?
Just imagining modern day crimes people sometimes mention dogs barking in or around the times to signify something happening. I imagine it must have been the same back in 1888?

[perrymason]

Hi there!

How busy where the streets around the murder locations at the time's of the murders?

Before I started reading the casebook site I'd imagined that they were quiet and deserted but it seems that people were always coming and going to work or coming back to their lodgings or whatever.
Was there a set time for pubs to close at? When did the trains and trams stop operating for the night?

I'm just trying to get a sense of how the Ripper could blend into the surroundings.

Another question has to do with animals: was there lots of dogs and animals roaming about on the streets?
Just imagining modern day crimes people sometimes mention dogs barking in or around the times to signify something happening. I imagine it must have been the same back in 1888?

Hi Jack,

Nice first post. some good questions. Welcome aboard!

Heres my perspective on your questions, Im sure others will have some different views....

On the first points, I believe the streets around Bucks Row and Bucks Row itself was relatively quiet, Hanbury Street would have had the occasional night "couple" or slaughterhouse or market persons moving about, Dutfields Yard adjacent to Berner Street was empty supposedly, and the street had only the traffic that Israel Schwartz and Fanny Mortimer and John Brown saw, some of who might have seen the same people,....Mitre Square was off Mitre Steet, so the street likely had some foot traffic, we do know of 3 policemen nearby the square in some lanes and alleys, 2 patrolling as far as the Square, 1 entering it regularly, there were few residents inside the square,....and Dorset Street would have had regular all night foot traffic due to the enormous amount of lodgers that lived there.

Pubs closed I believe as late as midnight, but there were clubs that likely served booze to its members after that...as in evidence perhaps at 40 Berner or the Imperial Club with Lawende, Harris and Levy leaving at 1:30am. I think the latest trains in the area ended around midnight, the station accesses were locked for the night.

You would have streetwalkers, market people, butchers, slaughterhousemen, police patrols, the homeless, criminals, dockers, sailors, gentry type slummers and the like out after midnight on those streets. Maybe some workers who were actively expanding the Underground through the East End in 1888. Plus you have the expansion of police and the addition of Vigilantees to add to the mix as the Fall progressed.

Obviously there were lulls immediately surrounding the days of the murders.

It seems likely that the Ripper could have blended in quite well with the types that were on the streets at night even if slightly stained with blood......assuming his attire matched the local economy.

The animals question is a good one, sure there were dogs and cats both feral and domestic, cattle, horses and carts.....citified animals still could pick up the scent of blood and fear and react noisily to that. But I dont seem to recall any testimony that had dogs barking or the like in these cases though.

Hope that input helps a bit.

Best regards JD.

[Sam Flynn]

How busy where the streets around the murder locations at the time's of the murders?

By all accounts, Jack, not very busy at all. Mike sums it up well, although I would point out that the foot-traffic in and out of Dorset Street would have died down after the lodgers who could pay were in their beds, and those who couldn't had been turfed out to rough it in Itchy Park, railway arches and similar places. In an economy where so many had to look for work on a day by day basis, it was even more important to get your head down after dark than one might think.

[JackDaw]

Thanks, Michael and Sam for that (and the welcome!)

I’ve been wondering about what kind of noise disturbances there was in 1888 in the area in terms of music and the like. Nowadays we have loud cars and traffic of all sorts, house alarms going off, aircraft flying overhead, television sets blaring etc but back then I’m sure it was much quieter yet all I’ve really heard about is people hearing screams of “murder!” every now and then. The sound that Albert Cadosch heard in Hanbury street and the women who said they heard a distant ‘Murder!” from Miller’s Court area is all I can remember being talked about.
I would have thought back then with people not wearing soft comfortable shoes and walking on cobbled streets and no double-glazed windows and such that they might be more likely to notice sounds more!

[Sam Flynn]

Ah, but many people in that area back then worked very, very hard for extraordinarily long hours, and over-indulgence in alcohol was rather high - especially towards (and including) the weekends, when Jack scored most of his "successes".

[JackDaw]

Ah, but many people in that area back then worked very, very hard for extraordinarily long hours, and over-indulgence in alcohol was rather high - especially towards (and including) the weekends, when Jack scored most of his "successes".

Sounds a bit like where I live!