Pivotting from Dorset Street?

[Guest]

Hi all,

Ive often wondered about the fact that Dorset Street figures prominently throughout the Ripper murders.

I cant find a link for Polly, but Annie lived on Dorset Street twice, at # 30 with John Sivvy and again later at Crossinghams at # 35,...... At the time of Liz's murder Kidney was living at # 33 Dorset, Kate gives her name and address as Jane Kelly of Dorset Street for the pawning of the boots, and Mary as we know lived in courtyard behind #26 Dorset.

Does anyone know if Mary Ann was in any way connected to Dorset Street at any time?

My best regards all.

[John Savage]

Hi Michael,

Stephen Knight had the same idea back in the 1970's and a chapter of his book is entitled "All Roads Lead to Dorset Street".

Of course Knight brings in his usual cast of Freemasons, Walter Sickert, Royalty etc., but strip that away and you have the same theory. Here is what he had to say about Polly Nichols:

FLOWER AND DEAN STREET Mary Nichols lodged for a time at a house called the White House. This was only yards away from No. 32 where Stride often dossed. A short way along from No. 32 was Eddowes main address, No. 55. Flower and Dean Street was less than a hundred yards from Dorset Street.

THRAWL STREET Nichol 's chief address was at No.18. This was near No.6, the address of Eddowes sister, whom Eddowes often used to visit. Thrawl Street was a hundred and eighty yards from Dorset Street.

I am not sure if further connections have been discovered since then.

Rgds
John

[Sam Flynn]

Does anyone know if Mary Ann was in any way connected to Dorset Street at any time?

Doubtful, Mike. Nichols was practically a "newcomer" - she hadn't actually lived in Spitalfields/Whitechapel until a comparatively short time before she was killed. If the Ireland->Wales->Knightsbridge->Paris->Ratcliffe sequence is even vaguely true, Kelly was a long-term Spitalfields resident in comparison.

Bear in mind that finding linkages between poor Late Victorian Eastenders and Dorset Street (or Thrawl Street/Flower&Dean, for that matter) is like spotting connections between Cantonese waiters and London's Chinatown.

[Fisherman]

Sam writes:

"Bear in mind that finding linkages between poor Late Victorian Eastenders and Dorset Street (or Thrawl Street/Flower&Dean, for that matter) is like spotting connections between Cantonese waiters and London's Chinatown."

...which is why I always duck Lisle Street

The best,
Fisherman

[perrymason]

Doubtful, Mike. Nichols was practically a "newcomer" - she hadn't actually lived in Spitalfields/Whitechapel until a comparatively short time before she was killed. If the Ireland->Wales->Knightsbridge->Paris->Ratcliffe sequence is even vaguely true, Kelly was a long-term Spitalfields resident in comparison.

Bear in mind that finding linkages between poor Late Victorian Eastenders and Dorset Street (or Thrawl Street/Flower&Dean, for that matter) is like spotting connections between Cantonese waiters and London's Chinatown.

Hi Sam,

I do realize that Dorset Street was a busy one, and a "mean street" as its referred to by a journalist at the time....something which McCarthy himself countered in the Daily Mail July 16th. But that in and of itself wouldnt discount the street being a link to the 5 Canonicals, since we know at least tangentially it is for 4 of them.

Interesting in that context to view Pollys murder location, its double the distance away from any other "Ripper" site than any other Canonical site is from each other.

If Dorset Street was some kind of pivot location, where he sees women for his targets but kills them away from that location, only Mary would be questionable, because it would be in his own backyard so to speak.

In "neighborhoods", like modern urban ones, a few streets either way can change the look of the residents and the domiciles....so the East End is really a region with multiple smaller communities living side by each...in this case mostly at poverty level or below. That they were from the same region isnt suspicious, but if from the same few street"neighborhood".... within that region....who knows.

My point is the killer might have seen some victims in his "neighborhood", but doesnt kill them right there because he lives in that same few street "neighborhood". Perhaps a few streets away he is less likely to be recognized, I believe that the street Unfortunates went away from their own doorstep when they worked perhaps for the same reasons...and he does need to think of where he'll want to be when they find the women. In his immediate neighborhood is my bet.

Best regards Sam

[Sam Flynn]

...which is why I always duck Lisle Street

...crispy duck?

[Sam Flynn]

Perhaps a few streets away he is less likely to be recognized

That's a safe bet, Mike - for reasons I've elaborated elsewhere, but which (in brief) boil down to the fact that several thousand people would have crammed into the space occupied by a mere handful of Spitalfields streets. If Jack strayed but a few blocks away from home, he'd have been a total stranger to most of the people there.

[Jane Welland]

So many?

That's a safe bet, Mike - for reasons I've elaborated elsewhere, but which (in brief) boil down to the fact that several thousand people would have crammed into the space occupied by a mere handful of Spitalfields streets.

Thousands, Sam? Really? That many?

Do you have a reference for that?

Best wishes

Jane x

[Fisherman]

Sam asks:

"...crispy duck?"

Absolutely. When I was offered "pee king" duck, I naturally turned the suggestion down. Disgusting!

The best,
Fisherman

[aspallek]

Dorset Street, indeed. And which suspect was from Dorset-shire and had a particularly blabber-mouthed MP from Dorset West to represent him? His initials were MJD....

Sorry. I know this is a bit of foolishness but I couldn't resist.

[Sam Flynn]

Thousands, Sam? Really? That many?

Do you have a reference for that?

Dorset Street alone was home to between 800 and 900 people, Jane.

[Jane Welland]

Goodness!

I knew it was crowded - I hadn't realised how many people there were, clearly!

Thanks Sam!

Best regrades

Jane x

[Sam Flynn]

Indeed, Jane.

You'll find some illustrations I did based on a Census headcount here.

[perrymason]

It is also a comparatively short street in East End terms, which suggests that it would be a great crowded place to lodge....if youre killing elsewhere. Thats why I was curious about any potential link with Polly to that street.

Miller Street is not far from what could be loosely described as the central core of the murder sites.

Best regards

[Jane Welland]

Thanks Sam - that's very interesting...

Could I ask you which Census you used to obtain your information? I'm curious!

Best wishes

Jane x