3D recreation of Whitechapel - some questions

[Chris Scott]

In the light of some of the computer talent we have on this site, I was just wondering if any one had ever attempted or contemplated a 3D recreation of parts of Whitechapel in Jack's time. I mean the sort of recreation where you can do a walk through or fly through to explore, a sort of virtual Whitechapel
Although I have certain IT skills this sort of thing is WAY beyond my scope but I just wondered how massive a task this would be and what would be involved.
Any ideas, folks?

[Sam Flynn]

Paging Jaakko Luukanen!

[Jake L]

"Like a Bird on a Wireframe....

...I have tried, in my way, to 3d..."

A large topic, but here's the general gist of it (leaving the history/research issues aside)...

Chris, from your question I take it that you refer to a "real-time" model, meaning a "3d gamelike" explorable environment rather than a detailed "cinematic" model (as in digital movie sets etc) - which reveals its "3dness" only in the sequences that are rendered out.

The methodology & the software is by and large the same for both - you would do your models (geometry) and surface textures (bitmaps/shaders) in a 3d content creation package + related tools.

For delivering a "game-like" environment you'd need to export your assets to a game engine or similar program to define your navigable areas & the dynamics, etc & compile the executable that the end-users will have. (There are web-based engines/plugins etc, which are more limited but the idea & limitations are much the same as those in game engines).

The difference between the two is the amount of detail/realism you can have. For real-time you will need greatly simplified models and tight restrictions on the size of the data sets (most puters aren't powerful enough to handle everything you throw at them). The same logic applies to, for example, Google Earth models, which are often just boxes with building decals on. However, this is one of the areas that is likely to get better...(as it already has).

In detailed ("cinematic") models, only the creation workspace (of the 3d prog) is fully 3d (as in "navigable") & you can set up/animate your cameras and then render out spatial etc animations & combine these in a compositing proggie with real-world footage etc. Here the word is "photoreal" in many cases.

I haven't used Blender myself, but is reportedly the best non-commercial (=free) application and actually has the 3d tools as well as the game engine part.

To do the work, you'll likely need a puter with a fair amount of memory & processing power..

Be warned though, the learning curve is quite steep & the process itself fun but time-consuming, so you might have to retire from all other aspects of Ripperology, (brief Sunday visits to Casebook & a mildly ripperish book every xmas notwithstanding!)

/jake

[DarkPassenger]

Well, UnrealEd could be very useful in this scenario.

The editor for the Postal 2 game is similar but because of the nature of the game itself, it could be good for realistic recreations.

Maps do not convey the actual environment - a full 3D recreation would be excellent.

[Chris Scott]

Many thanks for the feeback
I have obtained copies of Blender and Unreal engine and will have a dabble to see how I get on
It could be a late night...

[Monty]

And everybody thinks Jake justs pi$$es around on computers all day !

Monty

[DarkPassenger]

UnrealEd takes some mastering but user mods you can get online are fantastic - get someone with good knowledge of UnrealEd and make sure you have plenty of info on the scale of streets, buildings and all that, and a basic block-style recreation of the area should be easy enough. Why has no-one thought of this before?

[Nemo]

I have thought of this before and actually built a Mitre Square and Millers Court using the Radiant program (very basic - for my own use) - used in the Soldier of Fortune series of PC games and also Call of Duty

I would agree that the UnReal engine is possibly superior for beginners and could easily create a more than passable 3D crime scene

I would recommend the DOOM engine for realism especially with lighting

I have mentioned before my desire for a DVD ROM that has 3D maps of the crime scenes + encyclopaedic text on the case - sort of a multimedia JtR DVD

I'm very surprised it hasn't been produced already

I have seen it discussed about recreating the whole of central London as a 3D computer environment which would be very useful

In my build of Mitre Square I immediately got the sense of how long it would take to cross the square to the various possible escape routes

With the correct lighting you really get a sense of how dark and forbidding the square is due to the proximity of the tall buildings

PS In my experience many "modders" create maps in their bedroom that rival any commercial undertaking and they often re-create actual places such as famous battlefields/buildings/ their home town - a good mapper could probably produce a basic map in weeks if not days really. Improving it will increase the aesthetic aspects but a basic block building layout of the whole of Whitechapel would be very desirable

[Stephen Thomas]

3-D Boffins

Why not a virtual 13 Millers Court?

That would be much easier to create and really something to see.

[Sam Flynn]

I agree, Stephen. Indeed, I'd go further and do the whole of Miller's Court. The dimensions are reasonably well-known, or at least could be reasonably deduced, and we might learn a great deal from such a model.

[String]

I seem to remember someone saying on here that they were working on a virtual model of the crime scenes a while back but haven't heard anything about it since.

[pmerryman]

I thought that someone created a version of Mitre Square using some computer software a while ago, but cant see it anymore in the photo archives.

[Nemo]

I think Jeff Leahy stated that he had a computer model of Miller's Court - I don't know what software was used and I have not seen any pictures of it

I did post a few pictures from my Mitre square model and also a cross section type of screenshot of Millers Court to illustrate the position of the stairs (in my opinion)

I have only created maps using Radiant and specifically for the Soldier of Fortune games

Using this software you cannot create a standalone map for people to click on and view - you would need to load up the game (Soldier of Fortune) and then load the map as a multiplayer level - after that you can wander around the map at your leisure. You can run and walk so judging times / escape routes etc especially in Mitre Square is very relevant For me, the most striking aspect of being able to wander around in 3D is when you get the period lighting correct as it definitely adds to the sense of foreboding when walking the streets in 1888.

The creations I made were very basic and blocky, as, even though I can create a map, I specialise in what is known as "scripting" with which you add special effects/sound effects/people/enemies etc including anything moving in the map such as doors etc

For public consumption, I submitted to the superior talents of a Spanish friend of mine who created the actual physical maps with very detailed textures etc and then I added the special effects (a number of our maps are on websites available for the SoF community to download).

I will try to find the relevant screenshots to illustrate what I am saying.

[Nemo]

I have archived the relevant Ripper models somewhere and cannot find them at the moment

I will either find them or re-create them when I get time - a bit busy at the moment..

Until then - here are some screenshots that illustrate what is possible...

Here is what the texturing would be like in a basic block map in SoF



I'm just going to test if the pic loads - see next post...

[Nemo]

That worked!

Here is a more detailed SoF map that would take upwards of a few weeks to create - the subject is the House of Blue Leaves from Kill Bill Vol.1...