The People of the Abyss

[Archaic]

How Much Money Did Flophouse Landlords Make?

Hi, everyone; I've been reading through this thread, and a question occurred to me: does anybody know how much money the owners of the notorious 'Rope' doss-houses earned in a night, a week, or a month?

With people packed in like sardines, and considering that the management would have either owned the flop-house outright or paid a very cheap rent on it, it seems like they could have made a great deal of money over time. And that was clearly their goal, or they would never have conceived of packing their fellow human in like cattle bound for market. We know that they grossly exceeded the physical and 'legal' capacity of every room, even to the extent of keeping phoney books.

Was John McCarthy the landlord of any such flophouses? I know he had a little 'empire' of cheap rentals, and his family was able to 'come up' in the world. -Thanks, Archaic

[Roy Corduroy]

I mis-typed - should be "if we had only been poor"

But my point in posting the quote was she said "twopence for the rope lean-to."

With wife Henrietta at his side, Rev Barnett was Vicar of St. Jude's, Whitechapel from 1873 to 1893 and warden of Toynbee Hall from 1893 to 1906. The Barnetts were devoted to social and educational work and knew well the conditions of the poor. Her memoir is authentic.

So I respectfully submit this as a confirmation. Harry, you are a man who brings lots of life experience to the table in discussing the old murders. Somehow you melted down over the rope-a-dope thing. Let's get past it, shall we?

Roy

[Roy Corduroy]

Cha-Ching, Sam son !

Henrietta Barnett wrote an account of Samuel Barnett’s life and work: Canon Barnett: his life, work and friends (1918) and I quote:

"On a freezing night, with the north wind tearing down Commercial Street, human brothers, and worse still, human sisters slept on the clean hearth-stoned Vicarage steps, and one dared not give them fourpence for the doss-house bunk, or even twopence for the rope lean-to. If we had on been poor it might have been easier, but to possess the money and to have to withhold it! - The 'principles' made life difficult, but Mr. Barnett never wavered."

[Sam Flynn]

a photo has been located that shows men sleeping over a rope. It's from Germany http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...ed=1#post79181

The man on the right is a Chinese named Hua Ching, and the flat-capped blond guy in the middle is Fritz Siegfried, whose family owned the rope. The chap on the left is just someone who used to hang out with Hua Ching on the Siegfrieds' line.

[WARSPITE]

Ive just read People Of The Abyss for the first time. Great photos,amazing insight,only wish he could have made more references to specific streets/places where he was.

[Jon Guy]

It's from Germany, it's a couple of decades later, but I think it fairly much kills any rational person's argument that the poor didn't pay to sleep on a rope.

..might be a somnambulistic tug-of-war competition...

[Ally]

I would just like to point out a photo has been located that shows men sleeping over a rope who could not afford a bed. It's from Germany, it's a couple of decades later, but I think it fairly much kills any rational person's argument that the poor didn't pay to sleep on a rope.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=79181&posted=1#post79181

Not that it champions historical accuracy or anything like it, the movie From Hell showed a scene where all the Canonicals are on a bench in a doss house...(as I said, accuracy wasnt the goal).... in the basement I think, sleeping sitting up with a rope across them as a pseudo seatbelt, holding them upright somewhat. When the manager unties the rope they tumble forward.

Is this the type of arrangement that is being discussed?

Best regards all.

[Ally]

[QUOTE=harry;77813]

Of course none of the above photos show a rope and length of time spent sleeping slumped over one,in a doss house.

of course your pathetic and lame attempt to continue to argue somethign you know you've been beaten on is pitiful as well. The object is not important. What is important is the sleeping position. If it can be done on handlebars, a fence, a post a railing it can be done on rope. It's the position that matters, not the object. And by your increasingly poor reasoning skills, by the logic you display above, then an actual photograph of people sleeping on ropes in the 19th century wouldn't convince you either because there is no way of proving they were in a doss house, or how long they slept or even if they were asleep in the photo and not just resting.

Harry, the longer this goes on, the more irrational you look. It's nice to know that there are people who don't mind looking ridiculous for the amusement of others, and I thank you wholeheartedly for volunteering.

Now to the contempory newspapers.Which papers and where in the papers is a mention of the sleeping practice of slumped over a rope.Show the relevant page,either on the boards or in an email to me.

Are you doddering or just senile? Page 2 of this thread Robert provided you with contemporary newspaper accounts of doss houses in america where the practice was described in detail and the doss houses were named. And I linked a newspaper article from the time in ENGLAND where the practice was described. You have already been given contemporary explicit newspaper descriptions. You are just arguing from stupidity at this point. I suggest you get checked for alzheimers'. No kidding. Forgetting what you've already been shown and told doesn't bode well. I've seen it before in my grandmother.

[Brenda]

I don't think the proof that Harry wants is going to be found on the internet. That one is a "hit the library and search old books" proposition. Who has time for that???

[truebluedub]

Harry,
The article Robert posted clearly uses it being said in relation to the practice going on at that location, not the practice itself. Note the relevant sentence:
"Such an establishment was said to have existed in Castle Street, Belfast".

Given the date of 1954 older people at the time would have been able to remember that the twopenny hangover happened at this place, without there being benches with ropes attached available for inspection. Considering the social structure of 19th century Belfast it is unlikely many of the inhabitants would have had cameras to take photographic proof, and the fact that the concerns in Ireland were around religiosity not class meant that people who could afford cameras were not taking images relevant to class. So the Irish Times could only say it was said.

It should also be remembered that a picture itself will not present a fact. When I'm writing papers or teaching visual methods (I love semiotics) I emphasise this. They are easily manipulated and can be used to hide evidence, such as what goes on behind the cameraman/photographer. Take this from Howard Becker's work for example: http://home.earthlink.net/~hsbecker/.../evidence.html

Chris Lowe

[harry]

Of course none of the above photos show a rope and length of time spent sleeping slumped over one,in a doss house.A pitiful attempt posters,I know its April 1st,but it is a long way from proving people in 1888 slept that way in doss houses,for hours at a time,night after night.The 1954 paper proves nothing either,its just another claim."It is said',those words speak volumes,emphasising everything I have claimed.It didn't say,'it is proven'.That would have been something.Now to the contempory newspapers.Which papers and where in the papers is a mention of the sleeping practice of slumped over a rope.Show the relevant page,either on the boards or in an email to me.I ask nothing more than has been asked of me.I did make claims of what was said in a certain paper,and provided proof.A certain well respected poster can vouch for that.So come on,put up or shut up.Do the same,no more of your lies.I know there is an excuse for Ally,she was born with a deformity,but what of the rest of you.Do you not know the difference between a claim and proving a claim?
I am only interested in one position,Ally.Slumped over a rope for hours on end,sleeping,so it's you who is now straying from the topic.And despite what some posters are insinuating,that is the only subject I differ on.

[smezenen]

replace the back of the bench in this picture with a rope and it would be much like what i have read in the liturature.

[Robert]

Irish Times November 6th 1954.

[Robert]

Rope-sleeping somnambulist funambulist.