The Ten Bells

[John Bennett]

This could be the shortest thread of all time, but...

How many of us here assume that the 'Ten Bells' is the same building that stood in 1888? I always have.

I've got a feeling it isn't. Has anybody else clocked this before?

[John Bennett]

Here's why...

Contemporary sketch (not sure what publication)


Goad Insurance map, May 1890.


OS map 1894, showing the diagonal corner we know today.


It appears that the Ten Bells was a square-cornered building and seems to have changed between 1890 and 1894. The sketch shows an altogether different style of pub.

I don't know if it was just refronted or entirely rebuilt. 'Entirely rebuilt' looks very possible here.

[Steve S]

Do seem to recall an old thread about the ground floor being re-built.....
Steve

[John Bennett]

Thanks Steve,

Don't recall that one, but it certainly looks the case. And the upper floors refronted, perhaps?

[m_w_r]

Do seem to recall an old thread about the ground floor being re-built.....

But if you look at the windows on the southern aspect, there are three "columns" of windows in the drawing:



and two by c.1905, the third "column" from the right (taking the photo as a 2-D object) being on the new south-western aspect of the diagonal corner:



Plus, the roof is very different - that depicted in the sketch looks more like that of the building to the immediate east of the Ten Bells in the photograph, although the chimney stack is pretty recognisable. It does seem as if a lot of work (at least externally) had taken place in the years between.

I'm off to have a closer look...

Mark

[John Bennett]

I'm off to have a closer look...

Mark

Ah, the beauty of living 'in the field' as it were.

Anyway, after seeing the maps, I did mention this in my Wiki entry. I just didn't realise how much work seems to have been done.

[claire]

If the sketch is accurate then there certainly seems to have been some substantial work done to the ground floor...could it be that the accuracy of the sketch is doubtful, with regards to the upper floors? (Particularly if it was done by someone who just did a very brief sketch in situ and then went away to tidy it up.) As for the insurance map, possible, I suppose, that the plot was square but the building a little angled.

Interesting, though. I'm sure there'll be paperwork somewhere on planning permissions for any substantial building work that would have altered the shape of the building...tomorrow I am off to look at similar permissions for the works on Wilton's, so I'll have a check if anything else would exist for the Bells.

[The Grave Maurice]

Yikes. Every time I went to the Bells I said to myself, well this is as close as I'm ever going to get: MJK might very well have sat in that corner right over there cadging drinks. Turns out it could have been a different place altogether. Is nothing sacred? I shall follow this thread with interest. (I'm hoping that the building simply underwent some sort of minor facelift.)

[Observer]

The Ten Bells, Scuse the converging verticals had to use wide angle lens.

all the best

Observer

[Monty]

John,

I was talking to Paul Begg some years ago who stated that the layout of the Bells inside was different to today.

The entrance was on the extreme left of the photo Observer kindly produced, where the sign is that reads 'The Ten Bells' at body level. The bar was a horseshoe kind, so I was told.

I know many pubs have been altered. The Princess Alice is decidely shorter than it used to be. Most however usually go for a new facade.

Looking at the difference in images, the fact Goads has a squared building (as does the sketch) whereas the 1894 & 1905 images show an angled corner, is confusing. I cant see why they would rebuild an almost identicle building on the spot.

So personally I feel it was altered as opposed to rebuilt.

Cheers
Monty


PS, This image below of the pub in 1905 has always fascinated me. Ever since Andy Ailiffe pointed out that on the top of the telegraph pole that is sticking out of the Ten Bells pub, seems to be the figure of a man doing some work on it. Indeed, it has been suggested this was the reason for the photo.

And if I remember correctly, Rob Clack has a photo of the very window this photo was taken from.

Interest yet dull. Thats the oxymoron I am !

[kensei]

I visited the Ten Bells this September while fitting a solo daytime Ripper tour into a vacation to England. (Had resolved to drink a toast to Mary Jane there- it ended up just being a Coke since it was the middle of the day.) I was struck by how extremely small the interior was for such a famous pub. The bartender barely responded to questions about the Ripper and said I was only the second person he'd ever heard bring it up. I didn't believe that for a second and neither did Philip Hutchinson when I met him later to take his tour. Anyone else care to share your experiences/conversations while visiting the Ten Bells?

[John Bennett]

Anyone else care to share your experiences/conversations while visiting the Ten Bells?

A couple of years back I went into the Ten Bells during the day, this being when the famous victims board was still in there, albeit facing the wall.

Feeling cheeky, I asked the barman what that large panel was in the corner - he replied "oh, just some board with names on it", just like that.

It did confirm the ambivalence the pub had towards Ripper stuff at the time.

[Cubitt]

It seems to be quite a trendy hangout these days. The clientele are often young twenty-somethings. The whole area is very trendy though so I'm not in the least bit surprised.

Every so often you see someone who looks totally out of place, like middle-aged Americans sat by themselves, having a pint and taking the atmosphere in and you can almost guarantee they'll be students of the Whitechapel murders on a sort of pilgrimage

[Jon Guy]

The last time I was in the Ten Bells it was called the Jack the Ripper, and it was the year the Diary came out, I bought a copy to read on my return train journey.

I remember the area was deserted, and no-one was in the pub whilst I was there. The victims board was on a wall near the bar, and they were selling a few JTR titbits like maps behind the bar.

[AdamWalsh]

It seems to be quite a trendy hangout these days. The clientele are often young twenty-somethings. The whole area is very trendy though so I'm not in the least bit surprised.

Every so often you see someone who looks totally out of place, like middle-aged Americans sat by themselves, having a pint and taking the atmosphere in and you can almost guarantee they'll be students of the Whitechapel murders on a sort of pilgrimage

very true - when I was in there it was obvious who were the oblivious "drinkers" and who were the Jack people, me being one of them - just the types that had cameras and spent the whole time looking round instead of just sitting.