1911 census

[Brenda]

thanks Robert! I always find the census information you guys dig up to be so interesting. I've thought about joining Ancestry.com for awhile, just to see if this kind of research truly appeals to me, or is just a passing interest. I think, though, I'll wait to decide when Ancestry.com updates their servers.

[Robert]

Hi Brenda

There are no obvious candidates for Daniel Barnett in 1911 that I can see, which makes me wonder if the Daniel Barnett who died last quarter 1906 in Whitechapel age 57 might be him.

[Robert]

Published today by Mark : "I Caught Dew."

[m_w_r]

I've bought myself a Walter Dew. Please PM me if you're interested.

Mark

[Robert]

Someone on a genealogy website has suggested this link, for cases where there's already a shrewd suspicion as to where the target was living.

http://www.ancestryhost.org/caswells//1911/RG14.pdf

[Brenda]

I would be curious to know the whereabouts of Daniel Barnett.

[Chris]

How about Isaac Kosminski? Also Levy, Ostrog and Pizer.

I don't think there's any doubt that Pizer is the one who died in 1897, so no point looking for him.

[Chris]

Hi guys
I am drawing up a "hit list" of those I want to track down in 1911
Any more to add??

1911 "Hit list"

Roslyn D'Onston (found by Mike C)
Joseph Barnett
Joseph Fleming
Aaron Kosminski
Fred Abberline
John McCarthy
Israel Schwartz
George Hutchinson
Joseph Lawende

Of these only the following seem certain so far:
HOUSEHOLD BARNETT JOSEPH M 1858 53 St George in the East London
HOUSEHOLD ABBERLINE FREDERICK GEORGE M 1843 68 Christchurch Hampshire

I have found Lawende, and the Schwartz who I think is probably the right one - the one who lived in Samuel Street in 1891.

I have not been able to find Aaron Kozminski. I think that will require either wildcards or working all through the returns for Leavesden.

Edit: I have most of Aaron's immediate family, though.

[Robert]

Hi Chris S

How about Isaac Kosminski? Also Levy, Ostrog and Pizer.

[Chris Scott]

Hi guys
I am drawing up a "hit list" of those I want to track down in 1911
Any more to add??

1911 "Hit list"

Roslyn D'Onston (found by Mike C)
Joseph Barnett
Joseph Fleming
Aaron Kosminski
Fred Abberline
John McCarthy
Israel Schwartz
George Hutchinson
Joseph Lawende

Of these only the following seem certain so far:
HOUSEHOLD BARNETT JOSEPH M 1858 53 St George in the East London
HOUSEHOLD ABBERLINE FREDERICK GEORGE M 1843 68 Christchurch Hampshire

[Robert]

I have Kate Cutbush for 1911, if anyone wants the original. The actual page is a bit of a puzzle with red ink intruding, but I can transcribe it.

I think that personally I'm inclined to wait till the thing becomes part of their subscription package, then sign up for that and probably dump Ancestry. I've actually grown a beard waiting for Ancestry searches to load.

[Chris]

Just in case anyone is concerned that publishing their own transcript of a census entry may involve a breach of copyright, here is the guidance from the National Archives on the waiver of crown copyright:
"Since 1999, Crown copyright has been waived (set aside) in the contents of most unpublished public records that we hold. You can index, transcribe (put into writing), publish and broadcast the contents of crown copyright material and material that is not in copyright without needing formal permission, having to pay a copyright fee or acknowledging copyright (on the material itself). You can use the material in an exhibition or lecture. You should acknowledge the fact that we hold the original document, and give the archive reference..."

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/legal/pdf/copyright_summary.pdf

[Chris]

We need Dan Norder on this one - he was always good on copyright matters.

I'm not sure why you think that. I had to point out to him several times what the law was on copyright in unpublished manuscript material, and he simply refused to accept it!

[Robert]

Yes Chris, I included the surname issue in the list of suggested improvements I sent them.

Regarding copyright, I am still bamboozled at the way in which census information which belongs to everybody has somehow become "Crown" copyright or some private company's copyright etc etc.

We need Dan Norder on this one - he was always good on copyright matters.

[Chris]

The idea of researchers pooling their info seems fine to me. The problem arises in the course of searching for an image. Although the images we want cost £X per image, it will often be necessary to spend much more than that as one weeds out mistranscriptions.

The combination of having to specify a surname and not being able to use wildcards - and therefore having to specify exactly the surname transcribed (or mistranscribed) is going to leave a lot of entries unfindable in practice. As they have said some search features will be disabled until the initial surge in demand is over, I'd hope that wouldn't be a long-term problem.

Regarding pricing, according to online discussions the 1911 census is going to be included in "Find My Past's" flat rate subscription services some time later this year (and apparently the company's contract gives it exclusive rights only for 6 months - though if a rival had to rescan and retranscribe all the records that would obviously take much longer than 6 months). So for searches that can wait a few months, it may be a better option to wait until that happens.

On pooling information, why not set up a thread for the posting of people's own transcripts of relevant entries (or links to same on more relevant threads)? I don't think there could be any copyright objection to that. If it were important to people to see the images of the original records, they could contact the poster privately with a request.