Dutfields Yard interior photograph, 1900

[Suzi]

He he Nats!!- AND my ruler - and horse sense!!!
Suz x

[Chris]

Quite true Trevor.Astonishingly "conflicting" when we arrive at some of the writings by the "Three Wise Monkeys",
Anderson ,Macnaghten and Swanson!

For a moment I thought I was going to see three quite different names on the next line!

[Natalie Severn]

[QUOTE=Suzi;48716]Hi Guys- Safe to come in here??

...... dont be afraid. Nobody is going to hurt you.Just grab your boxing gloves and enjoy a bit of banter and biffing .

[Suzi]

Hi Guys- Safe to come in here??

I reckon- Looking at the pic that Philip posted that the distance from the street to the gates etc would tie in quite nicely with the (Let's face it approximate) distance and positioning of Liz's body -Have done some scribbling on a print out of it and done some vague measurements- The doors at 4'6" each when open would be just enough room for the pony to take a few steps into the yard through the open doors -take a turn at what it saw/sensed and shy away -leaving Mr D to get out of the cart which itself wasn't probably even in the gate entrance at the time!- (Let's face it - it's not a big cart we're talking about here- just a cheap totters cart/trap 3-5 ft.tops for the trap and probably 4'6" tops for the length of the pony) -crawl past the pony,who had either frozen or freaked by this point!- poked about with his driving whip in the relative darkness- and Bingo there he is at the foot (feet) of Liz - Those approximate distances 6-7 ft ish seem to work for me!

That apart- talking of ponies/mokes and carts-



'OK which of you ladies missed your stop? -and which one wanted Durward St? -and Oh yes Dearie you're going onto Mitre Sq ain't ya '

Suzi xx

[Sam Flynn]

Dutfield's Yard was long and narrow, for the best part.

...as, indeed, was George Yard for its entire length.

[mac-the-kipper]

Philip,

Based upon his other posts on these boards, it looks like mac-the-kipper is trying to claim that if your image is accepted as real without tests and so forth then the Sept. 17th letter must also be treated as real. And perhaps the Maybrick Diary too, for all I know (I think he made some posts in support of that, but I may be mistaken).

He doesn't really understand (or simply wants to ignore) that there's a huge difference between a photo that fits all the known facts and shows up in an old photo album (just like you'd expect from an old photo) and a letter that contradicts all the known facts and shows up mysteriously at an archive in a folder that makes no sense for what it's supposed to be and had never been seen before by people who had gone through those files previously.

You are quite wrong AGAIN! With what I may or may not THINK about any subject.

How the hell do you imagine to know what I'm thinking?
More to the point, you are breaking the rules;


4. Don't deliberately stray off topic--natural evolvements of threads are natural, but if you need to make an abrupt subject switch based on content in a post, create a new thread and refer to/quote the original post.

Idiot.

[caz]

A busy 48 hours, eh Phil? A 16hr journey from the States, a Ripper Tour and now this.

Personally, I can't wait for the next project by Linder, Morris & Skinner: "Dutfield's Yard Photo: The Inside Story".

I'll take that as a supreme compliment John (whether it was meant that way or not).

If Philip wants to give me all his juicy private correspondence on the photo to add to this very public silliness (which is down to about 2.2 posters as far as I can make out) then I'll consider it - after having a good old nose through it all of course.

I don't know how anyone can get themselves so wound up by two old women: AP (who once told me I was wrong to believe he was a man) and Trevor (who thinks unfortunates used their aprons as sanitary towels the size of horse blankets).

Love,

Caz
X

[Natalie Severn]

[QUOTE=Trevor Marriott;48703



The trouble with the ripper is that for to long now people have been accepting what has been written as gospel when a closer scrutiny of some of these facts shows otherwise.The testimony in this murder is conflicting but all you want to do is keep throwing forward the parts of it which support what you beleive.[/QUOTE]
--------------------

Quite true Trevor.Astonishingly "conflicting" when we arrive at some of the writings by the "Three Wise Monkeys", Anderson ,Macnaghten and Swanson!
But I agree with you.I am all for questioning "conflicting evidence",----in deed why not question everything in this case? - particularly anything to do with what was stated as a "definitely ascertained FACT" by one of the those 3 wise monkeys above!
But the evidence of one of your past colleagues ,PC Henry Lamb,I am willing to accept.A "hands on "policeman,doing his job properly, why would he not be correct in such an instance? Moreover ,Stewart has now clarified ,with his pictures, the position of where Stride"s body was when she was found.And it does all tally with Philips discovery----which is all great news!
Best
Norma

[Stewart P Evans]

Evaluating

Hi All,
Morris Eagle tells us that the Dutfields Yard gateway was 9 feet 2 inches wide.
Each gate when open would therefore have extended 4 feet 7 inches into the yard.
Constable Lamb—"The feet of the deceased extended just to the swing of the gate, so that the barrier could be closed without disturbing the body."
So on the basis of Lamb's evidence Stride's feet couldn't have been "about six or seven feet from them [the gates]" as reported by Morris Eagle, nor "three yards" as reported by Blackwell.
But how will we ever know when faced with such a welter of evidence, none of whose contradictions were picked up by the police, coroner or press?
Let's agree to differ and move on.
Regards,
Simon

When evaluating evidence of this nature, that of a police officer is usually the most accurate. As far as I am aware there has never been any doubt that Stride was lying just a short way inside the gates. When asked to give evidence as to distance, or length, lay witnesses are usually at variance with each other. I should say that she was lying 6 to 9 feet inside the closed gates (they were closed by the police at the time). I should think we are running out of ideas about what to debate here. Suffice to say Trevor's original assessment was mistaken.



Dutfield's Yard was long and narrow, for the best part.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Monty,

Blackwell, Lamb, Eagle all verify each other?

Please see my post #197.

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

Now youre condtradicting yourself, seeing as Louis didnt pass the body.

Blackwell, Lamb, Eagle all verify each other, Louis stated the pony pulled away as he entered the gate.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Morris Eagle tells us that the Dutfields Yard gateway was 9 feet 2 inches wide.

Each gate when open would therefore have extended 4 feet 7 inches into the yard.

Constable Lamb—"The feet of the deceased extended just to the swing of the gate, so that the barrier could be closed without disturbing the body."

So on the basis of Lamb's evidence Stride's feet couldn't have been "about six or seven feet from them [the gates]" as reported by Morris Eagle, nor "three yards" as reported by Blackwell.

But how will we ever know when faced with such a welter of evidence, none of whose contradictions were picked up by the police, coroner or press?

Let's agree to differ and move on.

Regards,

Simon

[Trevor Marriott]

Well we dont know who is right and who is wrong you interpret the conflicting evidence as you see fit as will i.

i have put forward some valid points in favour of my argument. The trouble with the ripper is that for to long now people have been accepting what has been written as gospel when a closer scrutiny of some of these facts shows otherwise.The testimony in this murder is conflicting but all you want to do is keep throwing forward the parts of it which support what you beleive.

[jmenges]

.....her feet pointed towards the street and were about three yards[or -9 feet-or about three metres] from the gateway..........

Begg is referencing Blackwell. As the paragraph. which is footnoted, states: "According to the medical examination at the scene and the subsequent postmortem"

Sugden does the same thing (Complete pb, p. 171), quoting Blackwell "Her feet were three yards from the gateway".

See also Ultimate, hb, p. 149.

JM

[Sam Flynn]

Mr Flynn i would suggest you esepcially obtain and read the new material

I did, Trev - if you mean your new book - but that's for another thread.

PS: I don't pass myself off as a medical expert, at least not in any professional sense. I do, however, have a long-standing interest in medicine/biology, which predates by a mere whisker my hobby of leg-pulling and merry japes.