Imperial club near Mitre square

[thehood]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for info about Imperial Club near Mitre Square.
What kind of activity, what class of people (were they all Jewish? Working men? Women? Any particular liberal profession?). Also I wonder how it could look like inside (like a pub place or like a meeting room? Is the access restricted?) ?

If you have any info about it, I would be very glad!
Thx a lot!
TheHood

[Chris]

The advertisement below appeared in the Jewish Chronicle on 18 March 1887.

[The Good Michael]

The manager appears to have been Jewish.

Mike

[Chris]

I've found a copy I made of an interesting discussion last December about the Imperial Club (lost in the last server crash).

Here it is:


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Morganstone24th October 2007, 06:29 AM
Was the Imperial Club on Duke Street for men only? A sort of Gentleman's Club? Are there any photographs of it? Who owned this club? Could Jack have frequented it?

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New Bug25th October 2007, 10:57 PM
Ooh good topic. Me too, I'd be so interested to hear from anyone with knowledge on the Imperial.

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chris25th October 2007, 11:48 PM
I have had a look at Duke Street, Aldgate in the 1891 census and the only premises I can find listed as a club in that street consists of Nos 26-28 Duke Street. This is listed in that year as the City Commercial Club and the Club manager is listed as Samuel J Brittan.

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tom_wescott26th October 2007, 12:12 AM
I believe Tom Slemen has done extensive research into the Imperial Club.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

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chris26th October 2007, 12:38 AM
"In 1872, Martin Kosminski, a furrier like his father, Mark Kosminski, married London-born Augusta Barnett in the Great Synagogue on Duke Street, across from the future location of the Imperial Club at nos. 16 and 17. Years later, it was from this Imperial Club, one street west of Houndsditch, that Joseph Levy and his two companions emerged to see the man and woman standing next to Church Passage leading to the murder scene at Mitre Square on 30 September 1888."
from
The Polish Jew Suspect - Jewish Witness Connection: Some Further Speculations
Scott Nelson
In 1881, 16 Duke Street is listed as uninhabited.
At No 17 was the family of a German man named Hermans Wagner, aged 46, listed as general dealer

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Morganstone26th October 2007, 03:13 AM
I emailed Tom Selmen and he forwaded me some info on the club and a photo, which I am having trouble posting here. I expected some grand looking premises, just looks like an average building.

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chrisg26th October 2007, 09:19 AM
Solomon Joseph Britton was secretary of the Imperial Club in 1888-1889. He is one of the individuals mentioned in a new article by Scott Nelson upcoming in the October issue of Ripperologist. Scott's article is on "The Butcher's Row Suspect -- Was He Jack the Ripper?" In addition to taking a detailed look at businesses on Butcher's Row in Aldgate High Street, Scott also discusses some of the familial relationships of the Jews connected to the area.

Best regards

Chris George

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tom_wescott26th October 2007, 08:14 PM
Chris,

I can't wait to read Scott's article! I've done a little peaking around Butcher's Row myself (evidentially speaking) and I believe Scott was involved in some discussion we had on the subject here at the Casebook. I found some of Anderson's comments to be pretty revealing. Scott being Scott I'm sure it'll be an interesting read.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

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Graham26th October 2007, 08:31 PM
The Imperial Club was in Duke's Place, not Duke Street.

Cheers,

Graham

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chrisg27th October 2007, 06:02 PM
Chris,

I can't wait to read Scott's article! I've done a little peaking around Butcher's Row myself (evidentially speaking) and I believe Scott was involved in some discussion we had on the subject here at the Casebook. I found some of Anderson's comments to be pretty revealing. Scott being Scott I'm sure it'll be an interesting read.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom

Thanks, Tom. Yes I think you will find it an informative, high quality piece of research -- I was impressed in going over it to prepare it for publication. In addition to providing a close look at the businesses in Butcher's Row and examining which one might have been frequented by the suspect watched by the City Police, the article contains a good number of period illustrations. I understand that Adam Wood is going to take a photograph of Aldgate High Street as it looks now for the back cover of the issue.

All the best

Chris

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tom_wescott27th October 2007, 09:33 PM
Sweet. I think there's a chance the Butcher's Row suspect could be identified. Can't wait to see what Scott makes of it. Will this be in the November issue? Anyway, back to Imperial Club and that photo Morganstone was going to post.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

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Jake L28th October 2007, 02:21 PM
..... back to Imperial Club and that photo Morganstone was going to post.


Indeed.

Morganstone,

I'm curious to see this one as well. May we be of assistance? Could you have another go, please?

/jake

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snelson19th December 2007, 08:04 PM
Here's some information about the Imperial Club and the Duke Street numbering from the late Adrian McPhypers (aka Viper) with my edits.

Kelly’s directories describe Duke Street as running from 19 Aldgate Street to Houndsditch. Duke Street’s numbering was a complete mess; in-filling or sub-division had created a number of properties that had a “half” incorporated into their addresses, (i.e. the address had been created between two other numbered properties). At the time of the murders, the numbers still ran consecutively down one side of the street and back up the other, as was common with the older London streets. To complicate the search, Duke Street underwent re-numbering around 1889; the opportunity being taken not only to incorporate the “halves” as proper addresses, but to change the street pattern to the more modern odd/even numbers (parallel) system. Odd numbers were on the west side, evens on the east side.

In 1881 there was a Commercial Club at 17 Duke Street (then on the eastern side). Its Secretary was called James Brim. From no. 16 next door traded one Joseph A. Britton, a print-seller. This was the 30-year old Joseph Britton who lived at no. 13 Houndsditch with his wife Annie (35) and two sons, two female servants and one lodger. He described himself as a ‘Fancy Warehouseman’ in the Census return, (meaning that he dealt in luxury household goods).

The Britton family must have been well known as tradesman around the locality, for in Duke Street, 58-year-old Louis Abraham Britton (born at Exeter in Devon) was running a provision merchant’s shop from number 27. Kelly’s listed him specifically as a ‘cheesemonger’. No doubt he was assisted by his wife, Esther, son Morton and grandson Louis (aged 16, occupation ‘shop boy’). After 1881, the reference to the Commercial Club in Duke Street disappears. Kelly’s does mention a club of the same name in Old Broad Street, less than half a mile away, but the balance of probability is that they were not connected.

The next reference to a club in Duke Street is contained in the City of London Directory for 1888, where the Imperial Club is listed at 16-17. There is no matching entry in Kelly’s for that year – no. 17 doesn’t appear at all while 16 is listed as being William Jarman & Co.’s tin plate works. It had been so for several years. However, the 1889 edition does give the Imperial Club at 16-17 Duke Street, where Jarman’s factory is still at 16, suggesting very strongly that the Club might have met above it. (my emphasis)

A search of the trades directory section under Clubs for 1889 contains an entry under Imperial for the one and only time. Kelly’s divided clubs into two types, Working Men’s and Others. The miscellaneous group was sub-divided somewhat arbitrarily - those clubs that were clearly for ‘gentlemen’ were listed in alphabetical order first; more modest clubs for the aspiring classes followed on, also alphabetically. It is to this latter category that the Imperial Club belonged. Their Secretary was named S. J. Britton.

By the time the 1890 edition of Kelly’s was published, Duke Street had been re-numbered. The official number 16 shows up as an asbestos factory. This, however is completely misleading, since the year before the British Asbestos Company had occupied no. 10. Under the new numbering system, Jarman’s factory was now designated 26, 28 and 30. While there is no mention of the Imperial Club, there is now a City Commercial Club Ltd. at 26 and 28. From this we must deduce that the Imperial Club had changed its name. The 1891 and 1892 editions both continue to list the factory and the club at these addresses. Unfortunately, we can glean nothing more because the City Commercial Club was never listed under ‘Clubs’ in the trade directory section. Some time during 1892, the club seems to have disbanded; the 1893, 1894 and 1899 editions give no mention of it.

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tom_wescott19th December 2007, 08:24 PM
Scott,

Thank you for that information. So it seems the Imperial Club was neither a Workingmen's Club or a 'Jewish' club as it was secretaried by a Mr. Britton. I wonder if any significance can be placed in the name 'Imperial'?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

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robert19th December 2007, 09:16 PM
Thanks Scott.

There is a report in the Era of April 13th 1889, which mentions the club.

Coincidentally there is a theatrical connection with 16 Greenfield St in the same paper but this is Jan 9 1892.

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snelson19th December 2007, 09:32 PM
Tom,

Britton was a Jew, and by extension, so was the club.

Many thanks for your wonderful follow-up research - as usual - Robert.

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tom_wescott19th December 2007, 09:40 PM
Robert,

Thank you for the clipping! I'm having difficulty reading some of this. Does that say 'Lavitsky' as in LeQueux's 'Levitski' or is it 'Lavaitaki' or something like that? If the former, then it's quite fascinating to have DS Stephen White with a Solomon Schwartz and a 'Levitski' (Lipski?) all together like a happy family - and at the Imperial Club no less!!!!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

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robert19th December 2007, 09:55 PM
Thanks Scott. This is from the London Gazette April 5th 1892.

Tom, it's Levitski. I thought of Lipski too. But this one isn't the Imperial.

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tom_wescott19th December 2007, 10:13 PM
Levitski was the name of the man talked about by William LeQueux who seemed to be familiar with the Lipski/Schwartz incident.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

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robert19th December 2007, 10:22 PM
Tom, I should have said, it's Lavitski 3rd paragraph and Levitski 5th paragraph, but probably same man?

Robert

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cgp10019th December 2007, 10:40 PM
Here's an advertisement for the Imperial Club - apparently just opened - from the Jewish Chronicle of 18 March 1887:

9936

Chris Phillips

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tom_wescott19th December 2007, 10:58 PM
Good stuff. Okay, it definitely was a Jewish Workingmen's club. Not sure if it was as politically motivated as the IWEC and it certainly wasn't just for young men 18-30 as Lawende and company were much older than that. But these are great finds Chris and Robert. Keep 'em coming!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

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robert19th December 2007, 11:11 PM
Hi Tom

Well, I doubt if "strictly kosher" would include what they were eating at Berner St during the Black Fast, so I reckon this was definitely a different kind of club.

There is a file at the NA on The City Commercial Club Ltd, covering the year 1889, company number 29861. It's under files of dissolved companies, so I'm not at all sure if it's the same club.

Robert

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Sam Flynn19th December 2007, 11:50 PM
it certainly wasn't just for young men 18-30 as Lawende and company were much older than that.
Blimey, Tom, "much" older is a bit harsh. Joseph Lawende was only about 38 at the time

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Stephen Thomas19th December 2007, 11:53 PM
"In 1872, Martin Kosminski, a furrier like his father, Mark Kosminski, married London-born Augusta Barnett in the Great Synagogue on Duke Street, across from the future location of the Imperial Club at nos. 16 and 17. Years later, it was from this Imperial Club, one street west of Houndsditch, that Joseph Levy and his two companions emerged to see the man and woman standing next to Church Passage leading to the murder scene at Mitre Square on 30 September 1888."
from
The Polish Jew Suspect - Jewish Witness Connection: Some Further Speculations
Scott Nelson



Not quite relevant to the discussion here but I believe Martin Kosminski worked near Cannon Street behind which is Cloak Lane from where Major Henry Smith was called from the police station to Mitre Square. Might Martin Kosminski have worked in the furriers that Smith said had been disturbing his sleep with the noise and smell?

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robert20th December 2007, 01:44 AM
I wonder if the John Hyman in Chris's article is the John Hyman living Aldgate in 1881. He was a clothier, and there was a John Hyman whose name appears as a theatrical costumier in The Era.

Robert

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tom_wescott20th December 2007, 01:58 AM
Blimey, Tom, "much" older is a bit harsh. Joseph Lawende was only about 38 at the time.

The old man of the IWEC inner circle was Philip Krantz at 29, which would make Lawende quite a bit older. And I thought he was in his 40's in 1888?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

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Sam Flynn20th December 2007, 02:17 AM
The old man of the IWEC inner circle was Philip Krantz at 29, which would make Lawende quite a bit older. And I thought he was in his 40's in 1888?
He was 32 in the 1881 Census, and 43 in the 1891 Census - so that'd make him 38, at most 39, in 1888.

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tom_wescott20th December 2007, 02:26 AM
Thanks, Flynnster.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

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snelson20th December 2007, 06:44 AM
Not quite relevant to the discussion here but I believe Martin Kosminski worked near Cannon Street behind which is Cloak Lane from where Major Henry Smith was called from the police station to Mitre Square. Might Martin Kosminski have worked in the furriers that Smith said had been disturbing his sleep with the noise and smell?

Chris George (the co-editor of the Ripperologist Magazine) found that Martin Kosminski was working with a Moses Woolf in the furrrier trade on Cannon Street Road, Mile End (Chris can correct me if I'm wrong). Martin's younger brother, Samuel, partnered with him in the early 1880s in Islington, after which Martin left sometime in the mid 1880s. Samuel continued the business with a J. Woolf, working at 170 Aldersgate St., E.C. (East Islington) until 1890, after which Samuel left the furrier trade for good.

The Aldersgate location was a few streets away from the Cloak Lane Police Station, where Smith was stationed on the night of the Eddowes' murder. Smith's locale was within a stone's throw of the Thames Docks. It seems likely that Smith was complaining about the oders emanating from the river docks, where the transport of animal skins and carcasses was the most practical means of commerce to the East End from points to the west and south of the river banks.

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Stephen Thomas20th December 2007, 01:59 PM
Chris George found that Martin Kosminski was working with a Moses Woolf in the furrrier trade on Cannon Street Road, Mile End (Chris can correct me if I'm wrong). Martin's younger brother, Samuel, partnered with him in the early 1880s in Islington, after which Martin left sometime in the mid 1880s. Samuel continued the business with a J. Woolf, working at 170 Aldersgate St., E.C. (East Islington) until 1890, after which Samuel left the furrier trade for good
.

Many thanks for that. I had thought that Kosminski had a connection to the City apart from Carter Lane and this was mentioned again recently in relation to him being arrested on Cheapside for walking an unmuzzled dog. Obviously there had been cofusion between Cannon Street (in the City) and Cannon Street Road (in the deepest East End)

By the way here are a couple of photos of Cloak Lane

9938

9939

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robert20th December 2007, 05:20 PM
Hi Guys

Martin does seem to have had a branch at Cannon St in the City, see this London Gazette item from Dec 3rd 1889.

There's another theatrical link here because Martin gave money to the music hall fund. And of course we also have Jessica Kosminski, the singer.

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Stephen Thomas20th December 2007, 09:07 PM
Hi Robert

Very interesting

Can you make out the numbering for the City Road, Seven Sisters Road and Cannon Street addresses?

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robert20th December 2007, 09:36 PM
Hi Stephen

Here's a close-up.

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Stephen Thomas20th December 2007, 09:53 PM
Cheers, Robert

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snelson21st December 2007, 12:42 AM
I wonder if the John Hyman in Chris's article is the John Hyman living Aldgate in 1881. He was a clothier, and there was a John Hyman whose name appears as a theatrical costumier in The Era.


This John Hyman found by Chris Phillips who first managed the Imperial Club in 1887 is interesting. Some time ago, R.J. Palmer was gracious enough to send me a copy of the hairdresser, Daniel Kozomiski’s British Naturalisation Application, approved in 1886. Daniel was born in Lodge (Lodz?) Poland on October 20, 1853 and came to London in October 1880, and lived at 102 Houndsditch from 1882 onwards. His application was sponsored by four Londoners, Marcus Meyer, an oil merchant living at 57 Houndsditch; Maurice (Morris) Britton, wholesale trimming warehouseman at 301 Mile End Road; Abraham Jacobs, general dealer at 5 Phils Buildings, Houndsditch, and the aforementioned John Hyman, listed as a commercial agent living at 132 Houndsditch.

Each of the sponsors signed a standard statement, “That I the said [name inserted] declare that I am a Householder and natural born British subject and that I have personally known and been well acquainted with the said Daniel Kozminski for a period of five years and upwards.”

Morris Britton was a cousin of Solomon J. Britton, the Secretary of the Imperial Club in 1888, and Joseph Britton, the club Treasurer in 1889. Also given that Houndsditch was a short walk to Duke Street, I’m wondering if all four sponsors, as well as Daniel, were actually members of the Imperial Club (John Hyman being the manager/secretary prior to Solomon Britton)? By extension, they may have known other club members, including Lawende, Levy and Harris. If this is so, it is interesting that the Imperial Club seems to have encouraged it’s members to support the naturalisation of fellow Jews who had emigrated from the Continent.

Given that the Imperial Club is also mentioned in Robert’s article posted above, “Unlicensed Stage Plays”, I wonder if John Hyman, the commercial agent in 1886, and Morris Britton were actually “theatrical costumiers.”

Obviously where I'm going with all this is to explore any possible relationship between Martin and Daniel Kozminski, and from Daniel to Aaron. Could Daniel Kozminski have been present in the Imperial Club on the night of Eddowes' murder?

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robert21st December 2007, 01:56 AM
Hi Scott

Re John Hyman, he is mentioned several times in the Era in 1884, and his address is given as Cutler St EC. Then there seems to be a three year gap where he's not mentioned. In 1887 he pops up again, and his address is "54 Hounsditch (corner of St Mary Axe)". So he was in the right road, and I suppose he could have recently moved from 132 Hounsditch.

Re the unlicensed plays, I can't see any mention of the Imperial Club there. I posted that because of the entertainment link and the 16 Greenfield St link (although the latter is too late for us).

I'll keep a lookout for the people you mention above.

Robert

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snelson21st December 2007, 02:25 AM
I have now had a chance to review the Kellys Directories for 1886-89. John Hyman shows up as an "exporter of clothing" at 54 Houndsditch in 1886, the year of Daniel Kosminski's naturalisation. From 1887 to 1889 Hyman is shown at the same address as a "military store dealer." The 132 address shows a hairdresser, Frederick Carr.

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robert21st December 2007, 03:53 PM
Hi Scott

Yes, he did military too. Here is the item from the Era, April 23rd 1887.

Intriguiing idea, that the club may have been used as a naturalisation assistance centre. I'd love to see a membership list.

Re Morris/Maurice Britton, I've seen him twice in the censuses as a provision merchant, and I suppose provisions could have included clothes. But I have him in 1881 at 307 Mile End Rd, not 301.

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robert21st December 2007, 03:57 PM
For what it's worth, there was a J Levy at the music hall benevolent dinner attended by Martin Kosminski.

Era, March 10 1900.

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snelson21st December 2007, 06:55 PM
Thanks Robert. Given that Hyman is partly advertised in "Theatrical Clothiers" and the April 13, 1889 theatrical piece at the Imperial Club, it may be that the John Hyman who first managed the club was also the person living on Houndsditch who supported Daniel Kozminski's naturalisation.

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robert21st December 2007, 07:40 PM
I think it's quite likely, Scott.

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robert22nd December 2007, 06:35 PM
I had a look at Marcus Meyer. The attached Times item from May 21st 1857 seems to confirm that he dealt in clothes as well as oil.

However, there is a mystery here. Marcus Meyers were pretty thin on the ground. I'm not quite sure precisely what connection Marcus Meyer had with 57 Houndsditch.

To cut a long story short, I have :

Marcus Meyer
1841 living 149 Houndsditch


1861 at 77 Gower St


1871 at 19 Gower St

1891 at 22 Delamere Crescent

1901 at 43 Oxford Gardens

Marcus is variously listed as wholesale draper, silk merchant etc.

Meanwhile I have Myer Henry Meyer

1861

at 33 Houndsditch

1871

at 54 Houndsditch

He then dies Oct qtr 1877 in London City aged 72.

His widow Hannah is at 54a Houndsitch in 1881. The street numbering seems chaotic.

In 1891 Hannah is at 156 Houndsditch.

I can't help feeling there was a deep connection between John Hyman, Marcus Meyer and Myer Meyer but I've no idea what it was.

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[thehood]

still about club

Thank you so much Chris for the digging. Do you have a chance to recollect the attached photos and documents?
By reading the post, I guess it was a club for Jewish men, working as little contractors; they organized small spectacles; they can eat there. And if they had help people to integrate English society, iy gives a nice background to this club.
I find this place intriguing... so are the members...

theHood

[Robert]

The word "convalescence" made me sit up. Probably nothing in it though.

[Chris]

Thank you so much Chris for the digging. Do you have a chance to recollect the attached photos and documents?

No, I'm afraid not. The text was recovered from a Google cache, but as far as I know the images are lost.

[Stephen]

Cut Apron, I tell you why!

Everyone discuss's the cut apron at Mitre Square. Why cut off , WHY TAKEN, WHY DROPPED. To clean his knife....no.....his knife had been dirty many times before....when it got messy he'd wipe each side on the victims clothes and leave.
Here is why he cut it off.

In the mess of the Mitre murder his hand slid over the handle,the blade sliced through his gloves, which he always wore ,and badly cut his fingers.
He is bleeding now......he knows he must not lead a trail of blood behind him, no matter how small.....so he cuts off some apron, after wiping his knife on the rest of it , takes off his glove (which he puts in his right pocket) he puts the knife away and wraps the cut off apron around his cut fingers...he leaves.
Reaching Goulston street he throws away the apron as he is nearing home now...at Dorset street he washes the wound and goes home to wrap it in a clean cloth. His hand is out of action now.....doesn't heal enough to hold a knife, or masturbate, until the 9th of November....., hence the longist period between killings , hence the ferocity....when his hand was injured he could not masturbate the way he liked...imagining his last victim, reliving the butchery...until the last victim became boring....then he would find a fresh one to see in his masturbation fantasies.