The Bucks Row Project Summary Report.

[Fisherman]

Not between the hours of 1 and 2 on a non-working day, it doesn't. Ah, but I see that he might "neatly" have been pub crawling or visiting friends, presumably carrying a deadly sharp knife on his person. How convenient!

Don´t play the fool, Gareth. Whether it is neat or not to visit an area for any reason is neither here nor there. He grew up in and had close ties to the Berner Street area. His mother and daughter lived in that very area, on Mary Ann Street, a short distance from the Berner Street murder site. Full stop. No clowning necessary.

[Fisherman]

Yes, I don't think it can be ruled out, particularly as Old Broad Street is actually in the City of London. For instance, he may have worked with colleagues who lived close by, and therefore could have regularly gone to one of the City of London pubs for a drink after work.

I'm not suggesting, of course, that he would have been finishing work at the time of Eddowes murder, but if this was an area that he was familiar with then it could well be within his "comfort zone."

I agree, this seems a very likely thing. Eddowes was killed on the night between Saturday and Sunday, and that would be the working mans best shot at doing some pubcrawling.
Old Broad Street and the Broad Street depot are close to each other but not the same thing. This link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad_...ation_(England) shows the more exact position of Lechmere´s working place. It remains that it may well put Mitre Square within his comfort zone.

[John G]

Thanks for this Fish. If you look at this ordnance survey map of Old Broad Street Mitre Square can be found to the right, just off Mitre Street: https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co...city-of-london

This is a map of Liverpool Street Station, which I believe was close to Lechmere's place of work. As can be seen, Old Broad Street is behind the station. Scroll right and Goulston Street comes into view: https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co...city-of-london

[Sam Flynn]

Don´t play the fool, Gareth. Whether it is neat or not to visit an area for any reason is neither here nor there. He grew up in and had close ties to the Berner Street area. His mother and daughter lived in that very area, on Mary Ann Street, a short distance from the Berner Street murder site. Full stop. No clowning necessary.

Who's clowning? I was deadly serious. Why would he visit mum with a lethally sharp knife in his coat pocket? What excuse do you propose to invent to account for his being around Mitre Square at 1:20 in the morning on a non-working day?

[Sam Flynn]

Thanks for this Fish. If you look at this ordnance survey map of Old Broad Street Mitre Square can be found to the right, just off Mitre Street: https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co...city-of-london

This is a map of Liverpool Street Station, which I believe was close to Lechmere's place of work. As can be seen, Old Broad Street is behind the station. Scroll right and Goulston Street comes into view: https://getoutside.ordnancesurvey.co...city-of-london

Well, it's a comparatively small area, so it's easy to make apparent connections. One man's Pickfords depot is another man's synagogue; one man's "mitre" is another man's link to freemasonry. Etc.

[John G]

Who's clowning? I was deadly serious. Why would he visit mum with a lethally sharp knife in his coat pocket? What excuse do you propose to invent to account for his being around Mitre Square at 1:20 in the morning on a non-working day?

But surely it's not unreasonable to postulate that he might target victims in an area that he was generally familiar with, i.e. because of the work location connection. I also find it interesting that Goulston Street was very close to his place of work.

[Batman]

But surely it's not unreasonable to postulate that he might target victims in an area that he was generally familiar with, i.e. because of the work location connection. I also find it interesting that Goulston Street was very close to his place of work.

https://www.casebook.org/images/rip72-photo4.jpg

In order for Lechmere to pass through the C5 he must take at least three different routes. The map above shows two routes and omits Stride and Eddowes. It includes Smith and Tabram instead.

So if you omit Stride, you still need him taking different routes to include Eddowes.

What this tells us is that one direct to work route is insufficient to explain the C5. That two work routes are maybe sufficient to explain the C5 without Stride. That you need a third route to explain Stride. Which is why they include some relations living down around the Berner St. area.

However when you include Stride, then what is he doing going to Mitre Square after? A work route? So even Eddowes on a 'work route' seems to be doubtful here... and if on a work route, what is he doing up Goulston Street going in the wrong direction to work?

How does Lechmere's work route fit with Stride, Eddowes and the apron action on Goulston St., at all?

[Fisherman]

Who's clowning? I was deadly serious. Why would he visit mum with a lethally sharp knife in his coat pocket? What excuse do you propose to invent to account for his being around Mitre Square at 1:20 in the morning on a non-working day?

Yes, how odd - why would a serial killer who dispatches his victims by way of knife bring such an implement along as he walks the streets at night? Strange indeed.

Tat is a really, really good point you have there! Not.

For your information, I am not inventing any "excuses" at all for Lechmere to have been in Mitre Square on a non-working early morning. I am observing how he is a suspect based on numerous factors, and I am saying that he has ties to the Berner Street area - meaning that he had a viable reason to be there when Stride died - plus he had his working place up at Broad Street, meaning that if he walked from the Berner Street deed towards the murder site in Mitre Square, he would have walked along his old working route from James Street where he lived for many years.

I am not called upon to establish (or "invent") any reason (or "excuse") for why Lechmere was supposedly in place on the murder spots. All I can do - and WILL do - is to point to how he has ties to the geography of the murder sites. The fact that the rest of the suspects lack these ties to a lesser, smaller or complete degree means that geographically speaking, Lechmere is by far the best suspect ever identified.

You may dislike it, but it would be wise to learn to live with it, since there is no altering it.

You would do well to cut down on the sarcasm, as long as it is going to chew on your behind whenever it surfaces in this mediocre form.

[Fisherman]

Well, it's a comparatively small area, so it's easy to make apparent connections. One man's Pickfords depot is another man's synagogue; one man's "mitre" is another man's link to freemasonry. Etc.

And one man only was found alone in close proximity of one of the murder victims. And one man alone has actually been shown to have ties to all of the murder sites.

The old "the area was crammed with people, anyone could have done it" has long since ceased to work. The police did not accept that Robert Blck was probably innocent because there were other people living where his petrol receipts put him - where young girls were snatched and killed.
That is - thank God - not how the police works. They do it logically instead: Find a suspect and see if his geography works out. If it does, you very likely have your man.

Sooooooooooo easy, and so totally unpalatable to you. Shame.

[Fisherman]

https://www.casebook.org/images/rip72-photo4.jpg

In order for Lechmere to pass through the C5 he must take at least three different routes. The map above shows two routes and omits Stride and Eddowes. It includes Smith and Tabram instead.

So if you omit Stride, you still need him taking different routes to include Eddowes.

What this tells us is that one direct to work route is insufficient to explain the C5. That two work routes are maybe sufficient to explain the C5 without Stride. That you need a third route to explain Stride. Which is why they include some relations living down around the Berner St. area.

However when you include Stride, then what is he doing going to Mitre Square after? A work route? So even Eddowes on a 'work route' seems to be doubtful here... and if on a work route, what is he doing up Goulston Street going in the wrong direction to work?

How does Lechmere's work route fit with Stride, Eddowes and the apron action on Goulston St., at all?

Yes, of course he needs to take more than one route. What problem is it you identify in such a suggestion? Carmen never use alternative, equally long routes, the way serial killers do? Or?

Please elaborate.

[Sam Flynn]

But surely it's not unreasonable to postulate that he might target victims in an area that he was generally familiar with

How many thousands were also familiar with that area, though, who had perfectly legitimate reasons for being there all the time, and could retreat to safety immediately a murder had been committed? Any excuse/advantage Cross may have had in being a regular visitor from Bethnal Green would be dwarfed compared to a locally-based killer, with no special reasons for his presence and advantages in spades.

[Fisherman]

Batman:

However when you include Stride, then what is he doing going to Mitre Square after? A work route? So even Eddowes on a 'work route' seems to be doubtful here... and if on a work route, what is he doing up Goulston Street going in the wrong direction to work?

Why would he NOT go to Mitre Square after Berner Street? How is it less likely than other suggestions? It is in City territory, meaning that the killer took some of the heat of choosing Mitre Square. It is also along his old working route, meaning that he would in all probability be familiar with the opportunities erved up by St Botolphs. Use you imagination. Think!

Why does he go to Goulston Street after the Mitre Square strike? Because it is smack, bang on his route home to Doveton Street. Why was the rag not in Goulston Street on Longs first round? Because, perhaps, Lechmere had gone to Broad Street to stash the innards/clean up? From where Goulston Street is ALSO smack, bang on his route to Doveton Street.

Why do you invent problems where there are none?

[Fisherman]

How many thousands were also familiar with that area, though, who had perfectly legitimate reasons for being there all the time, and could retreat to safety immediately a murder had been committed? Any excuse/advantage Cross may have had in being a regular visitor from Bethnal Green would be dwarfed compared to a locally-based killer, with no special reasons for his presence and advantages in spades.

How many of them were found alone alongside a freshly killed Ripper victim? How many of them were recorded to have disagreed with the police about the proceedings of the murder night?

The rest of the East End population are not suspects! They do not become so by simply living there!! Least of all if you think that Lechmere´s being found alone close to the still bleeding body of Nichols is a hundred per cent inconspicious.

Once you put your foot in it like this, you will be disclosed for it. Time and time again!

[Batman]

Why would he NOT go to Mitre Square after Berner Street? How is it less likely than other suggestions? It is in City territory, meaning that the killer took some of the heat of choosing Mitre Square. It is also along his old working route, meaning that he would in all probability be familiar with the opportunities erved up by St Botolphs. Use you imagination. Think!

Here is where "the route to work" explanation becomes "routes to all the places he worked + relatives living in one area".

This is nothing short of saying - "JtR went places where he had experiences walking before."

That includes probably tens of thousands of people.

Why does he go to Goulston Street after the Mitre Square strike? Because it is smack, bang on his route home to Doveton Street.

No it isn't. It is a few roads above from Mitre Square and Lechmere still has 90% of Whitechapel to cover to get home. It might be in the same direction, but it far from "smack, bang on his route". It is just one road of many in the direction he could have taken.

Why was the rag not in Goulston Street on Longs first round? Because, perhaps, Lechmere had gone to Broad Street to stash the innards/clean up?

This makes no sense. If he cleaned up in Broad Street, then he would have cleaned up there instead of cleaning up on Goulston Street. Also Mitre Square and places around had water basins which JtR could easily use. Also, he is spending just a few minutes in work? Hello/goodbye. That this doesn't catch anyone's attention given the double murder the next day?

Why do you invent problems where there are none?

See above.

[Sam Flynn]

How many of them were found alone alongside a freshly killed Ripper victim?

Not even Cross fits that description, strictly speaking.

How many of them were recorded to have disagreed with the police about the proceedings of the murder night?

That's just one case and, if there was to be any disagreement at all, it was going to be between the police and the witnesses present. Who's to say whose account was true or in error? Any discrepancies might lie with the police, Cross, Paul, or a combination of all three - to say nothing of the press who wrote all this up, with varying (and hardly comprehensive) results.

The rest of the East End population are not suspects!

I mean a resident of Whitechapel, more specifically Spitalfields, not the "rest of the East End".

They do not become so by simply living there!!

But a killer resident in Whitechapel/Spitalfields had greater advantages than Cross ever had, and every reason in the world for being present near the murder sites with no excuses needed to place them there. No suppositions about work rotas or routes, no need to favour particular opinions of times of death, no "he might have been visiting his mum", no "he might have been pub-crawling", no nothing.

Least of all if you think that Lechmere´s being found alone close to the still bleeding body of Nichols is a hundred per cent inconspicious.

He was not "found", and he was standing in the road.

Once you put your foot in it like this, you will be disclosed for it.

I haven't put my foot in anything. What I've said is perfectly true and entirely reasonable.