The Bucks Row Project Summary Report.

[Sam Flynn]

This is interesting. Israel Scwartz lived in Ellen Street, London. That is just 0.9 miles from Whites Row (Dorset Street), 0.7 miles from Durward Street (Bucks Row), 0.9 miles from Hanbury Street, 0.8 miles from Mitre Street and, finally, 0.2 miles from Henrique Street (Berner Street).

In other words, he didn't live further than 0.9 miles from any murder location, which I reckon I could walk in about 13.5 minutes.

And someone who lived in (say) Wentworth Street lived within a few minutes' walk of the three most extreme and bloody Ripper murders which, as I've already indicated, is more than can be said of Cross... or Schwartz for that matter.

Not that I'm suggesting that Schwartz was JtR - but it does put things into perspective.

Unless that was tongue-in-cheek, Google-mapping the trajectories from Ellen Street to the murder sites doesn't bring any new perspective on the matter. My point about someone living in the "hot zone" being able to get to 29 Hanbury Street and commit the Chapman murder, in the same time that it would have taken Cross (or Schwartz) even to get there, was - and remains - perfectly valid. Such a person would knock spots off Cross or Schwartz in terms of being well-placed to commit the majority of the Ripper murders, and certainly the most ambitious and complex ones among them.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Just thought that I’d have a quick look on this thread to see what’s going on.

We have Fish complaining of people being stubborn and stupid because they might disagree with him.

Nothing changes........

[John G]

This is interesting. Israel Scwartz lived in Ellen Street, London. That is just 0.9 miles from Whites Row (Dorset Street), 0.7 miles from Durward Street (Bucks Row), 0.9 miles from Hanbury Street, 0.8 miles from Mitre Street and, finally, 0.2 miles from Henrique Street (Berner Street).

In other words, he didn't live further than 0.9 miles from any murder location, which I reckon I could walk in about 13.5 minutes.

Not that I'm suggesting that Schwartz was JtR- although I do have doubts concerning his account of BS man!-but it does put things into perspective.

[Fisherman]

I think I have had enough of stubborn stupidity for one day now, and so I will leave you to it.

Goodnight to all of those who are not already soundly asleep.

[Fisherman]

Yes, but someone living in (e.g.) Wentworth Street could get to 29 Hanbury Street and commit the Chapman murder within that time, if he struck lucky and met her as soon as he got there. Not that I'm suggesting he did, of course, but it rather puts things into perspective.

"Someone" is not a suspect!! He is - once again - the dreaded Phantom killer, your murderer of choice.

[Fisherman]

How can you be so superior and dismissive when the criticisms you level at others apply in far greater measure to your own arguments?

I am formidably factual, Gareth. The dismissions are not my doing, they all come from a different source.

[Fisherman]

But they'd be a trivially short walk away from the three most extreme Ripper murders of all. Cross would be much, much further away and his presence at those murder sites harder to fathom... unless Cadoche/Richardson/Long were mistaken, Cross was meeting friends, out on a pub-crawl, or some other Deus ex machina to justify his presence in the vicinity.

He would be further away from his home, but not from his route. He would either be ON the exact streets or a very short distance away.

How silly of you to speak of the "most extreme" murders. How does that put them closer to your manīs home? Be for real, please!

Cadosch/Long/Richardson were either wrong or right.

Phillips was either wrong or right.

Itīs something that allows totally for Lechmere having killed Chapman at a remove in time that is consistent with all the other Spitalfields TOD:s.

Try as you might, Lechmere did not have to "justify" being in the areas. He belonged there. He grew up there, he walked to work there. There is nothing at all strange with him being there. Desperation only can make somebody imply it was. Or - but surely nobody is that crazy? - start speaking about "Deus ex machina".
In fact, for all the books and articles we have read, and for all the discussions on the boards, nobody has been shown to have such a logical presence at all the murder sites as Lechmere can claim. Not one person. There is not even a medico or a police who were involved in all the cases on site, from the outset.

Itīs only the carman who has that trait.

[Sam Flynn]

Itīs an exercise in futility you are wasting valuable time on.

How can you be so superior and dismissive when the criticisms you level at others apply in far greater measure to your own arguments?

[Sam Flynn]

Okay, although it would have been fairly straightforward for him to reach, say, Hanbury Street:

Walk south on Wickford Street towards Cephas Street/ Queens Terrace (50 yards). Turn right onto Cephas Street/ Queens Terrace, contine to follow Cephas Street (90 yards). Turn left onto Cambridge High Road (0.1 miles). Turn right onto Darling Row (120 yards). Turn left at Collingwood Street (110 yards). Turn right onto Brady Street (10 yards). Turn left ontp Durward Street-formerly Bucks Row- (0.2 miles). Turn right onto Valance Road (90 yards). Turn left towards Hanbury Street (40 yards). Turn right onto Hanbury Street (0.2 miles). Total walking distance: 0.9 miles, which I reckon I could walk in about 13.5 minutes.

Yes, but someone living in (e.g.) Wentworth Street could get to 29 Hanbury Street and commit the Chapman murder within that time, if he struck lucky and met her as soon as he got there. Not that I'm suggesting he did, of course, but it rather puts things into perspective.

[Fisherman]

Well, there were precious few victims out Bethnal Green way, that's for sure.

Could that - just thinking out loud here - possibly have something to do with the fact that Lechmere did not walk through Bethnal Green on his way to work, but instead through Spitalfields/Whitechapel? Certainly, the walk commenced in Bethnal Green, but nobody is suggesting that he killed on his spare time. What is suggested is that he did so en route to work. And with that suggestion, it kind of becomes slightly axiomatic that the victims should not be sought for in Bethnal Green, but instead along his working route. Can you see how that works?

As for how the victims were distributed, they make for a neat line between Doveton Street and Broad Street, one victim seven minutes from his house, some fifteen minutes away, and Eddowes half an hours walk away. That means that there is a distance of around twenty minutes between the extremes. That in itīs turn means that any killer living in the midst of the field would have to travel ten minutes from his home to kill the extremes.
So itīs a question of many minutes exposure versus many minutes exposure, and we know that Lechmere had a completely legal reason to be out and about, so nobody would question what he was doing there.

Itīs an exercise in futility you are wasting valuable time on.

[Sam Flynn]

Thatīs EXACTLY how Gareth and Batman reason.

There's nothing wrong with Occam's razor. Much better than a crowbar or a sledgehammer, I've found.

[John G]

It was certainly nowhere near as close as someone who lived in Commercial Street or one of its tributaries.
Well, there were precious few victims out Bethnal Green way, that's for sure.
Anyone who lived in Commercial Street or one of its tributaries, for example. I'd guess, for starters, that those streets alone contained a good few thousand men who'd have been far better placed than Cross to reach Hanbury St, Dorset Street and Mitre Square. From a similar starting point, even the furthest sites, Bucks Row and Berner Street, would have been easily reachable within a brisk walk of ten minutes or less.

Okay, although it would have been fairly straightforward for him to reach, say, Hanbury Street:

Walk south on Wickford Street towards Cephas Street/ Queens Terrace (50 yards). Turn right onto Cephas Street/ Queens Terrace, contine to follow Cephas Street (90 yards). Turn left onto Cambridge High Road (0.1 miles). Turn right onto Darling Row (120 yards). Turn left at Collingwood Street (110 yards). Turn right onto Brady Street (10 yards). Turn left ontp Durward Street-formerly Bucks Row- (0.2 miles). Turn right onto Valance Road (90 yards). Turn left towards Hanbury Street (40 yards). Turn right onto Hanbury Street (0.2 miles). Total walking distance: 0.9 miles, which I reckon I could walk in about 13.5 minutes.

[Sam Flynn]

Any killer living in the epicenter would actually have a longer distance to the extreme sites from his starting point.

But they'd be a trivially short walk away from the three most extreme Ripper murders of all. Cross would be much, much further away and his presence at those murder sites harder to fathom... unless Cadoche/Richardson/Long were mistaken, Cross was meeting friends, out on a pub-crawl, or some other Deus ex machina to justify his presence in the vicinity.

[Fisherman]

Ah, Occam's razor so to speak. I suppose if, in your profile, you're going to take into account wide-ranging factors, such as residence, former residences, work location, former job locations, relatives' addresses, friend's addresses etc, then virtually any Whitechapel resident could be connected to the murder locations.

Thatīs EXACTLY how Gareth and Batman reason.

[Fisherman]

Fisherman is presenting his own geographic profile which has different parameters to Rossmo. Rossmo's parameters in a very basic sense are that some serial killers will travel away from their home, but not too far away, just enough to appear not connected (don't poop where you eat, so to speak). Fisherman's parameters are that serial killers can sometimes kill along their routes to work. That's the geographic profile there.

The question is what does the distribution of the murder victims suggest is more viable?

The answer is the Rossmo, because it's a classic radial distribution whereas Fisherman's model is composed of several pathways involving current work routes, old work routes and relations nearby. It is the more complex answer with the C5. Parsimony suggests Rossmo.

Rossmo does not factor in the idea of a person killing en route. He works from a model that presupposes that the murders are all matters that begin and end at home.
Guess what happens when we do not factor in all the relevant material?

As if georaphical profilers were always right...