Originally posted by packers stem
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Originally posted by Observer View PostKidney and Stride lived in Devonshire street, off the Commercial Road prior to Stride leaving him I believe.
She was living with him until "Tuesday week"
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Originally posted by Sam Flynn View PostI'm pretty sure that, if something was referred to as a "shed", it meant precisely that. McCarthy's "shed" wasn't a shed at all, but a room inside a building. If there's any truth in the story of the "Shed Lady", it almost certainly didn't involve the front room of 26 Dorset Street. There must have been other, proper sheds in the vicinity, after all.
"It has seven rooms, the first-floor front, facing Dorset-street, being over a shed or warehouse used for the storage of costers' barrows."
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Originally posted by packers stem View PostStride was living with Kidney up until 12 days before her death
Kidney lived at 38 Dorset street
This desperation to attempt to put distance between the victims I have always found odd
They all lived or had lived within a few doors of each other .They frequented the same pubs ....and virtually lived in them .
Pubs were tiny and most still are, these are not night clubs .
I was in the ten bells on Sunday .... most of it is taken up by the bar .
The horn of plenty would have been tiny , probably the size of someone's parlour
Of course they were well acquainted with each other .It would be ridiculous to think otherwise
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Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Stride is only known to have been in Dorset Street in 1885, three years before the murders. She seems to have spent much of her remaining time in and around St George in the East where, significantly I think, she met her end. .
Kidney lived at 38 Dorset street
This desperation to attempt to put distance between the victims I have always found odd
They all lived or had lived within a few doors of each other .They frequented the same pubs ....and virtually lived in them .
Pubs were tiny and most still are, these are not night clubs .
I was in the ten bells on Sunday .... most of it is taken up by the bar .
The horn of plenty would have been tiny , probably the size of someone's parlour
Of course they were well acquainted with each other .It would be ridiculous to think otherwise
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There is a fair chance the "shed" was the stables owned by Fred and Sam Ball next door at 24 and 25 Dorset Street.
Stride and Kidney seemed to be living at 38 Dorset Street prior to her murder.
Furnished rooms owned by John McCarthy.
Bowyer lived at 37 and there was a coal dealership at 39. All owned by McCarthy.
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Originally posted by Sam Flynn View PostI'm pretty sure that, if something was referred to as a "shed", it meant precisely that. McCarthy's "shed" wasn't a shed at all, but a room inside a building. If there's any truth in the story of the "Shed Lady", it almost certainly didn't involve the front room of 26 Dorset Street. There must have been other, proper sheds in the vicinity, after all.
That's the shed. Full of ten to twenty of them. All the witnesses are saying is that she was sometimes one of those.
'Shed ladies', plural.
It's obviously the front room of 26 Dorset St., because the journalists at the time pretty much identified it as being that very place.
They did all the work for us.
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Originally posted by Batman View PostThen we have the journalists finding out later where the shed was and it looks like that it is this front from of #26 owned by McCarthy.
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Originally posted by Batman View PostYou don't do what Eddowes and Kelly did at the height of the murders without some degree of confidence in your client.
Anyway, Eddowes' connection with Dorset Street remains dubious, Nichols' time in the street was apparently brief and transient, and Stride was last known to live there 2 years before she was killed.Given all the other ripper victims have been associated with Dorset St., and even lodging houses there, it doesn't seem far-fetched to include Eddowes
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Originally posted by Batman View PostI think Begg has basically taken the whole page and broken it down into identifying six women and a man who were taken to see Eddowes and two who identified her as sleeping in the shed. He says in October and not necessarily Oct 3rd, so he may be getting it from other days too, I don't know.
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I think Begg has basically taken the whole page and broken it down into identifying six women and a man who were taken to see Eddowes and two who identified her as sleeping in the shed. He says in October and not necessarily Oct 3rd, so he may be getting it from other days too, I don't know. I suspect it's all in that one page on the 3rd though. Then we have the journalists finding out later where the shed was and it looks like that it is this front from of #26 owned by McCarthy.
Given all the other ripper victims have been associated with Dorset St., and even lodging houses there, it doesn't seem far-fetched to include Eddowes.
What all of this tells me is that Dorset St., over the years would have made a perfect spot for JtR to befriend all his potential victims into trusting him. You don't do what Eddowes and Kelly did at the height of the murders without some degree of confidence in your client.Last edited by Batman; 10-04-2018, 12:49 PM.
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Originally posted by Batman View PostLooks like it was six women and one man in total. Two identified her from 'The Shed.' Daily Telegraph 3rd Oct 1888 is referenced by Begg.
In October the Daily Telegraph reported that six women and a man had been taken by the police to view the body of Catharine Eddowes and that two of the women had identified her as a woman whose name they did not know but who had frequently been without money and had slept in a shed off Dorset Street – ‘the nightly refuge of some ten to twenty houseless creatures who are without the means of paying for their beds’. - Begg, *Paul. Jack the Ripper: The Facts
As I said earlier, the content relating to Eddowes is, in any case, somewhat "editorial" in nature, rather than reporting first-hand witness testimony. It's also a very early report, and these are prone to contain unreliable information and hearsay, and perhaps this is what we have with the tale of the identification of the anonymous "Shed Lady of Dorset Street".
Interestingly, I notice that the article actually refers to "a shed off Dorset Street" (which is in itself a bit ambiguous) and it certainly doesn't say that it was the shed associated with Miller's Court. As I've already noted, this would have been rather unlikely, since that "shed" wasn't a shed at all, but the front room of Number 26, where McCarthy kept his stuff.
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Originally posted by Sam Flynn View PostCan you point me to the specific report, please? I can't find it.
Daily Telegraph 3rd Oct 1888 is referenced by Begg.
In October the Daily Telegraph reported that six women and a man had been taken by the police to view the body of Catharine Eddowes and that two of the women had identified her as a woman whose name they did not know but who had frequently been without money and had slept in a shed off Dorset Street – ‘the nightly refuge of some ten to twenty houseless creatures who are without the means of paying for their beds’. - Begg, *Paul. Jack the Ripper: The Facts
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Originally posted by MrBarnett View PostNot in my neck of the woods. The back of the house consists of the rooms at the rear of the house.I'm very interested in the concept of MC being a 'lodging house'. Nothing to do with this discussion, but in connection with the Austin case. What is your basis for that description?
That post should still be here and/or on Howard's site, but it was a few years back and I haven't found it yet, although I have tried.
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Originally posted by Sam Flynn View PostIt usually is, though, Gary. Besides, for Prater to describe screams coming from "where the windows [of No 30] looked into Miller's Court", the screamers would had to have been hovering 4 storeys in the air. I also doubt very much that she meant that she "frequently heard such cries coming from the side of next door but three" - and why should she, when she'd heard the cry of "Murder" appear to come from Miller's Court? It's quite clear to me that Prater meant that those cries were heard from back of the house where she lodged, 26 Dorset Street, with her room above the shed as she explicitly stated.
I've seen some folks argue that the room above Kelly's was "above the shed" on the Y axis, so that's what Prater must have meant - but most people wouldn't describe such an arrangement that way. The room where I'm writing this is above my garage on the Y axis, but the garage is about ten yards away on the X axis. Where I'm actually sitting is above the dining room in terms of both X and Y coordinates, and that's how I'd describe it. I'd never dream of saying that my room is "above the garage", because my physical relationship to the garage carries very little descriptive value. The room "above the garage" is one of my guest bedrooms and, although it's above the dining room on the Y axis, I'd never think of describing it as "above the dining room" for the same reason.
Ditto Prater; when she said her room was "above the shed", the most obvious conclusion is that she meant just that.She didn't get it wrong, as Miller's Court was a lodging house, too.
I'm very interested in the concept of MC being a 'lodging house'. Nothing to do with this discussion, but in connection with the Austin case. What is your basis for that description?
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