All Roads Lead to Dorset St.,

[Sam Flynn]

Okay, but do you think that not a single officer or investigator concerning themselves with these details didn't meet and question the very Mary Kelly who would become the very next victim of the same person that killed Eddowes?

The problem is that Eddowes can be associated with at least two false names/addresses: Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street, and Mary Ann Kelly of 6 Fashion Street. Chances are that neither of these women really existed, so the police wouldn't have got very far. They probably realised that they were false names and addresses from the get-go.

[Batman]

Would depend on what they knew regarding the false name

Even if they identified her as Eddowes right at the start, why should that prevent them from finding a Mary Kelly on Dorset Street given they have this evidence? How do they know she isn't a real person?

Furthermore, isn't it very odd that investigators, even after discovering Kelly's body and investigating it, aren't discussing these connecting factors much, if at all?

[Batman]

She didn't tell the truth about anything at all, except to her partner. Nothing that was written down, nothing she said to officers, was the truth. Yet we are to believe she gave the right address to a stable in all of that?

26 Dorset St. is one figure less than the address she gave of 6 Dorset St. Just take away the 2 and we are talking about the room next to Kellys.

A woman whose name-like she happened to be using the day she was murdered.

Sam how many coincidences do you have going on there with your overall view of the case? Between rejecting Stride and Graffiti and now that Eddowes was staying in Miller's court, and the names Mary and Kelly being used, do you believe there are ANY connections in this case at all???

[MrBarnett]

But she never did
Read Wilkinson's testimony and it makes it quite clear that Conway was the name she chose to go by using the phrase "bought and paid for" to emphasise the point
If others wanted to call her what they want due to her partner at the time that was their choice not hers

If she was so attached to the Conway name, why did she revert to her maiden name when in Wandsworth prison?

[packers stem]

Okay, but do you think that not a single officer or investigator concerning themselves with these details didn't meet and question the very Mary Kelly who would become the very next victim of the same person that killed Eddowes?

Would depend on what they knew regarding the false name

[Sam Flynn]

https://whitechapeljack.com/wp-conte..._court_map.jpg

Look again at No. 20 (upstairs) Elizabeth Prater. Notice the 2 x ? that are there. One is above Kelly's room and the other is above the storage room. How do you know her room isn't partially over both?

Because there was a staircase, a stairwell and a landing in the way. And Prater said her room was above the shed - not straddling the shed, Kelly's room and the gap between them where the staircase started on the ground floor.

Either way, Prater said the shed was the room under her. So we know they are calling this storage room 'the shed'.

Yes - it was colloquially known as "the shed" to the residents, but it was not shed-like in its construction; it was a front room co-opted to act as a storage space for McCarthy's barrows. Furthermore, calling it "the shed" would not have made it "the only shed in Dorset Street".

One of those arrows points at the storage room. The other to MKs.

Yes, and there are question marks on both arrows, indicating that either Prater's room was at the front over the "shed" (which it was) or it was at the back over Kelly's room (which it wasn't, because another report tells us that a couple lived there).

While the stables is a good find, a stables isn't a shed

It's more of a shed than the front parlour of a domestic dwelling like 26 Dorset Street!

and if she did stay there, then it is the only truth she told in among a list of lies. Why tell the truth about that and lie about everything else?

Well, she wasn't telling the whole truth, was she, because she used a false name on the selfsame pawn ticket.

Anyway, that storage room is much bigger than you are making it out to be.

Whichever way we cut it, it wasn't remotely spacious, that's for sure.

You are also going for the max number of 20 despite the journalist saying 10 to 20.

The article says that Eddowes was occasionally "compelled to share the nightly refuge - a shed in Dorset-street - of a score or so of houseless waifs, penniless prostitutes like herself, without a friend, a name, or even a nickname". (Daily Telegraph, 3rd October 1888)

A "score or so" is "twenty or so". Plus, you can tell from that snippet that this article could well be just a bit of romantic Victorian schmaltz, and indeed the rest of it is written in the same melodramatic manner.

[packers stem]

Surely it isn't stretching things too much to suspect that a Victorian woman in long-term cohabitation with a man named Kelly might have been known to some as Mrs Kelly?

But she never did
Read Wilkinson's testimony and it makes it quite clear that Conway was the name she chose to go by using the phrase "bought and paid for" to emphasise the point
If others wanted to call her what they want due to her partner at the time that was their choice not hers

[MrBarnett]

Surely it isn't stretching things too much to suspect that a Victorian woman in long-term cohabitation with a man named Kelly might have been known to some as Mrs Kelly?

[Batman]

She wasn't known as Kate Kelly at all though
That's from a single newspaper report ,became part of ripperlore for convenience
She was always known as Kate Conway prior to going to Kent
For some reason she didn't want to use the name Conway once the murders began ..... can you think what that reason might be ?

Okay, but do you think that not a single officer or investigator concerning themselves with these details didn't meet and question the very Mary Kelly who would become the very next victim of the same person that killed Eddowes?

[Batman]

6 Dorset Street backed onto 32 White's Row.

Personally reckon Abberline was put on the case to ensure Henry ..... oops,Jack the Ripper was not caught.

I think they somewhere along the line have realized they made a big mistake and have messed up which allowed for Eddowes to be murdered as well as Kelly. That they are linked. That their investigation of Eddowes directly resulted in Kelly being targetted and murdered. That Mary Kelly was known to them through the ripper investigation of Eddowes and that this is something they kept quiet.

I think an officer or officers were identified as being involved somehow. The officers knew they had been the subject of talk and were either covering for JtR, informing for JtR or were JtR. That this is why JtR 'stopped' after MJK. They may not have even figured out at the time it was JtR. Just aided him.

That the division between city PCs and metro PCs may have been the reason why they never went public with it. Basically, an officer or two had let the side down badly and they didn't want to reveal it. Or these officers suspected they were being looked at and JtR realized they were onto him and stopped.

Either way, I think after the murder of Kelly internally they figured out that JtR had inside knowledge somehow. That the movements of officers didn't add up and that by bringing more officers in, they made it easier, not harder for JtR to murder starting with Stride, Eddowes and finishing with Mary. I think this is also why they reduced police numbers shortly after the murder of Mary. That he had used their tactics to catch him against them.

I also think it highly likely that people had covered for JtR without knowing he was JtR.

[packers stem]

Do you think that Mary Kelly wasn't investigated given that Eddowes had a said her name was 'Mary Kelly' and on her persons a mustard tin containing two pawn tickets, One in the name of Emily Birrell, 52 White's Row, dated August 31, 9d for a man's flannel shirt. The other is in the name of Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street and dated September 28, 2S for a pair of men's boots?

Eddowes was known as Kate Kelly. She gave her name to police as 'Mary Ann Kelly' of 6 Fashion Street. Using the #6 again from Dorset Street.

Do you think that not a single officer or investigator concerning themselves with these details didn't meet and question the very Mary Kelly who would become the very next victim of the same person that killed Eddowes?

She wasn't known as Kate Kelly at all though
That's from a single newspaper report ,became part of ripperlore for convenience
She was always known as Kate Conway prior to going to Kent
For some reason she didn't want to use the name Conway once the murders began ..... can you think what that reason might be ?

[Batman]

Also there is this question....

Do you think that Mary Kelly wasn't investigated given that Eddowes had a said her name was 'Mary Kelly' and on her persons a mustard tin containing two pawn tickets, One in the name of Emily Birrell, 52 White's Row, dated August 31, 9d for a man's flannel shirt. The other is in the name of Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street and dated September 28, 2S for a pair of men's boots?

Eddowes was known as Kate Kelly. She gave her name to police as 'Mary Ann Kelly' of 6 Fashion Street. Using the #6 again from Dorset Street.

Do you think that not a single officer or investigator concerning themselves with these details didn't meet and question the very Mary Kelly who would become the very next victim of the same person that killed Eddowes?

[DJA]

You know the idea that Eddowes may have stayed in the room right next to Mary Kelly seems really hard for some to accept but at the same time who here thinks that Mary Kelly wasn't investigated given that Eddowes had a said her name was 'Mary Kelly' and on her persons a mustard tin containing two pawn tickets, One in the name of Emily Birrell, 52 White's Row, dated August 31, 9d for a man's flannel shirt. The other is in the name of Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street and dated September 28, 2S for a pair of men's boots. She was known as Kate Kelly. She gave her name to police as 'Mary Ann Kelly' of 6 Fashion Street. Using the #6 again from Dorset Street.

Yet are we to believe that not a single officer or investigator concerning themselves with these details didn't meet and question the very Mary Kelly who would become the very next victim of the same person that killed Stride?

This suggests inside knowledge. Someone working with LE investigating Eddowes discovered Mary Kelly through this investigation and targetted her. She may even have met him. Knew he was an officer. Felt safe going back to her room with one. Anyway, that's pure speculation, but how could they miss Mary Kelly in that investigation and fail to mention this in later reports (albeit they could be burned up and gone or stolen)?

6 Dorset Street backed onto 32 White's Row.

Personally reckon Abberline was put on the case to ensure Henry ..... oops,Jack the Ripper was not caught.

Edit. Ironically,in the late 17th century,White's Row was known as New Fashion Street.

[Batman]

https://whitechapeljack.com/wp-conte..._court_map.jpg

Look again at No. 20 (upstairs) Elizabeth Prater. Notice the 2 x ? that are there. One is above Kelly's room and the other is above the storage room. How do you know her room isn't partially over both?

Either way, Prater said the shed was the room under her. So we know they are calling this storage room 'the shed'.

One of those arrows points at the storage room. The other to MKs.

While the stables is a good find, a stables isn't a shed and if she did stay there, then it is the only truth she told in among a list of lies. Why tell the truth about that and lie about everything else? That makes no sense.

Anyway, that storage room is much bigger than you are making it out to be. You are also going for the max number of 20 despite the journalist saying 10 to 20.

[Sam Flynn]

"the first-floor front, facing Dorset-street, being over a shed or warehouse used for the storage of costers' barrows."

The article is telling the reader what the first-floor front was used for. So we know from this that it is used for storage and that the barrows are in there.

I repeat, that article is referring to the Kelly murder, and it doesn't link the "shed or warehouse" to Catherine Eddowes. Likewise, the report of 3rd October makes no mention of the shed "off Dorset Street" being used as a storage space for barrows or anything else; it only says that it was used by a score or so "houseless" women.

Kelly's room was 15ft. square feet (same article).

Still not enough to accommodate a 20 dossers, whether they were perched on the barrows or not.

https://whitechapeljack.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/millers_court_map.jpg

Notice that Prater's room is exactly located in this diagram.

It doesn't. It shows two arrows, one pointing to the first floor front (the one that actually IS "above the shed") and the other pointing to the room above Kelly, which is not "above the shed" except in the most goalpost-moving definition of that phrase.

You can easily guess that Mary's bed is a bit bigger than a barrow. How many barrows could one get into #26 Dorset St.? You could probably get at least eight in there. That's eight potential beds for the night.

I daresay it would be possible to get a lot more barrows and dossers in if you used a crowbar... which appears to be the tool of choice for some ripperologists

If Eddowes did occasionally occupy a "shed", then the stables behind 6 Dorset Street, identified in the recent post by Gary Barnett, strike me as a strong candidate, not least because 6 Dorset Street was an address we know Eddowes to have used on a pawn ticket. That's not to say it was the only shed in/off Dorset Street in which she might have crashed out; I shouldn't be surprised if there were others, too, and of a decidedly more shed-like nature than the front room of #26.

McCarthy would know the women there because they would likely be the ones renting rooms from him when they had the money. Sometimes they couldn't pay so likely went there as he gave the room to someone else until they could pay again... or move on completely.

There is absolutely no mention anywhere - not from the press, not from McCarthy, Bowyer, Venturney, Cox, Prater or anyone else - about the front room of #26 being used as a pop-in parlour for penniless waifs and strays.