Pc Long and the piece of rag.

[Joshua Rogan]

Evening News 1st Oct

POSSIBLE CLUES
A FRAGMENT OF APRON
The police have made an important discovery, which they are of opinion affords a clue to the direction in which the murderer made his escape. Yesterday afternoon a portion of an apron was found in Goldstein-street, and when the body of the woman found in Mitre-square as searched, it was discovered that she was wearing he upper portion of the apron to which the piece found belonged. It is therefore concluded that the murderer made his way into Whitechapel.

[Joshua Rogan]

I still think she stopped by the Rose and Crown and then entered by St. James passage. What do you think, Simon?

Wouldn't it have been closed by the time she was released from custody? Or are you saying she wasn't popping in there for a drink?

[jerryd]

Wouldn't it have been closed by the time she was released from custody? Or are you saying she wasn't popping in there for a drink?

Joshua,

It was actually a coffee shop. I think if she went down Houndsditch she undoubtedly would have at least passed by it.

There has been some speculation in the past of Mitre Square being watched for "Fenian" activity(sorry for the use of that term Lynn). I often wonder if the Rose and Crown was used by the police in 1888 for surveillance of dynamitards when we know they used it in 1889 for other police activity.

[drstrange169]

>>Did I say that I find the three categories of people akin to each other? Or was that your suggestion?<<


Let’s look and see;


Fisherman Post #1412:
“What if I was to say that I have a theory that you are a rapist, a small time crook and a closet transvestite? “

Your use of the word “and” links them by any standard reading of the English language.



>>Did I say that I find transvestism derogatory?<<

Fisherman Post #1412:
“How would that sound to you? Preposterous, false and extremely insulting, perhaps?”

Your use of the words “extremely insulting” indisputably indicates “derogatory”.


1. So yes, you did align the three together.


2. No, it was not my suggestion.


3. And yes, you used "closet transvestitism" as a slur.


Any doubt is confirmed when you added;
“Or should we take great care not to tarnish people with no evidence at all? “


Calling Harry a rapist would undoubtedly tarnish his reputation.
Calling Harry a small time crook would undoubtedly tarnish his reputation.
Calling Harry a closet transvestite would undoubtedly tarnish his reputation in the eyes of those, like yourself, who hold such bigoted views.


And there’s the rub. It’s nothing to do with you and me.
Anyone who holds your kind of views, on discriminating against people, needs to be called out on issues like this.

[Michael W Richards]

Joshua,

It was actually a coffee shop. I think if she went down Houndsditch she undoubtedly would have at least passed by it.

There has been some speculation in the past of Mitre Square being watched for "Fenian" activity(sorry for the use of that term Lynn). I often wonder if the Rose and Crown was used by the police in 1888 for surveillance of dynamitards when we know they used it in 1889 for other police activity.

Hey Jerry,

There were 2 men who were brought up on charges in connection with the Tower explosion in 1885, and one of them lived in #5 Mitre Square. Lets put it this way Jerry...in no other "Ripper alleged" murders do we find more police within whistle range, and no adequate explanation for 3 detectives who in the middle of the night were a few alleys away.

Might be a reason why Pearce lived in the square...and why most of it was uninhabited.

[Jon Guy]

.in no other "Ripper alleged" murders do we find more police within whistle range, .

What about the Castle Alley murder, Mike.
I believe more police responded to the sound of the whistle

.and no adequate explanation for 3 detectives who in the middle of the night were a few alleys away.

They were following specific orders from the Old Jewry, which was to keep an eye on couples.

[Fisherman]

>>Did I say that I find the three categories of people akin to each other? Or was that your suggestion?<<


Let’s look and see;


Fisherman Post #1412:
“What if I was to say that I have a theory that you are a rapist, a small time crook and a closet transvestite? “

Your use of the word “and” links them by any standard reading of the English language.



>>Did I say that I find transvestism derogatory?<<

Fisherman Post #1412:
“How would that sound to you? Preposterous, false and extremely insulting, perhaps?”

Your use of the words “extremely insulting” indisputably indicates “derogatory”.


1. So yes, you did align the three together.


2. No, it was not my suggestion.


3. And yes, you used "closet transvestitism" as a slur.


Any doubt is confirmed when you added;
“Or should we take great care not to tarnish people with no evidence at all? “


Calling Harry a rapist would undoubtedly tarnish his reputation.
Calling Harry a small time crook would undoubtedly tarnish his reputation.
Calling Harry a closet transvestite would undoubtedly tarnish his reputation in the eyes of those, like yourself, who hold such bigoted views.


And there’s the rub. It’s nothing to do with you and me.
Anyone who holds your kind of views, on discriminating against people, needs to be called out on issues like this.

Like I said, this is ridiculous and deserves no further answer. You just go on telling all and sundry that I am morally rotten and a bigot, I don´t care **** about it, and it seems to be all your ripperology stretches to.

You forgot to hint at me being a racist this time, disliking Michelle Obama and comparing her to a monkey this time, though.
Losing the touch, are we, Mr Moral Saviour?

[jerryd]

Hey Jerry,

There were 2 men who were brought up on charges in connection with the Tower explosion in 1885, and one of them lived in #5 Mitre Square. Lets put it this way Jerry...in no other "Ripper alleged" murders do we find more police within whistle range, and no adequate explanation for 3 detectives who in the middle of the night were a few alleys away.

Might be a reason why Pearce lived in the square...and why most of it was uninhabited.

Thanks Michael,

I meant speculated in 1888 that there may be a stakeout for Clan-na-gael activity in or near the square. You are absolutely spot on with the Tower bombing in 1885 and Mitre Square incident.

#5 Mitre Square was an interesting story in itself. The landlady in 1885 was a Mrs. Whitteridge. During this incident she was away on Christmas vacation. Another lady in the square, Mrs. Cappella, was housing the man Burton at the time in another house in Mitre Square. In her absence, Emma Wilson watched over the premises at #5. Emma and her husband, City Police Constable Robert Wilson, lived in two rooms on the second floor at #5 Mitre Square. On Dec. 26th the ground floor room in #5 was for let and Mrs. Cappella came asking about it and brought a man. The man took possession of the room and the latchkey. When Mrs. Whitteridge returned from vacation she mentioned the man that was now living in her house. That man was Burton. So, it appears the police had occupied a room in the square as far back, at least, as 1885. Then Pearse, as you said, was occupying #3 in 1888.

[Michael W Richards]

1.What about the Castle Alley murder, Mike.
I believe more police responded to the sound of the whistle

2. They were following specific orders from the Old Jewry, which was to keep an eye on couples.

On your replies Jon, I intended to refer to the Canonical Group when I said alleged Ripper murders, not to any murder within the Unsolved murders file. Alice is a modern theorists inclusion.

On the second point, as said no "adequate" reason......3 detectives in the city patrolling the alleys after 1am when no Ripper crime had been committed there and none were expected. Marriot, Halse and Outram, Pearce, Watkins, Harvey, and Morris were all within earshot....and they were the closest people to the crime scene.

[DJA]

So, it appears the police had occupied a room in the square as far back, at least, as 1885. Then Pearse, as you said, was occupying #3 in 1888.

If my memory serves me,there was a policeman and family living at 6 Mitre Street during the 1881 Census.
There was quite a police presence in the area,with two local cop shops and Old Jewry close by.

[Jon Guy]

On your replies Jon, I intended to refer to the Canonical Group when I said alleged Ripper murders, not to any murder within the Unsolved murders file. Alice is a modern theorists inclusion.

Aha, so you`re the one Trevor refers to when he bangs on about those old readily accepted facts, 5 and 5 only.

I don`t know about modern thoerists , Mike
What about Dr Bond and James Monro ?

On the second point, as said no "adequate" reason......3 detectives in the city patrolling the alleys after 1am when no Ripper crime had been committed there and none were expected. .

They obviously expected something if they had plain clothes detectives patrolling the eastern side of the city looking out for couples.

[Elamarna]

On your replies Jon, I intended to refer to the Canonical Group when I said alleged Ripper murders, not to any murder within the Unsolved murders file. Alice is a modern theorists inclusion.

Michael,

i would respectfully say that is not 100% accurate, some at the time Bond, and for a time Monro, certainly believed she was linked, I agree it has become more of a theory in recent years.



Steve

[Jon Guy]

i would respectfully say that is not 100% accurate, some at the time Bond, and for a time Monro, certainly believed she was linked, I agree it has become more of a theory in recent years.

Has the status of the McKenzie murder really changed since 1889?

[Elamarna]

Has the status of the McKenzie murder really changed since 1889?

NO, not really Jon, However there was a spell where to regard her as victim fell out of fashion. I have always believed she was one myself.


s

[Michael W Richards]

Jon and Steve,

Since we have a Canonical Group already established as the most probable inclusions in the alleged serial killers victims list, I tend to use just those 5 victims as the basis for "Jacks" list. In addition to the "opinions" you've mentioned, we have officials also stating that Jack likely drowned, that Jack was institutionalized before Alices murder, and that Jacks most probable victims list is 5 names long.

All depends on source and context doesn't it?