Pc Long and the piece of rag.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Part of Halse's inquest testimony, London Daily News, 12th October 1888 -



Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

Hi All,

Part of Halse's inquest testimony, London Daily News, 12th October 1888 -

[ATTACH]17806[/ATTACH]

Regards,

Simon

Hello Simon,

"For as plain as I could see it..it was dark, I had no light"

That comment raises all sorts of problems.

1) If Halse had problems seeing it close up..how in heaven's name could Warren "see it clearly from the street".
2) If Halse had no light...did Long have one in order to see it?
3) If Long had a light.. it wasn't in use when he showed the writing to Halse in order for Halse to write it down.
4) If Halse DIDN'T have a light on it.. who did when writing down THEIR versions?
5) If other people copied down their version with the aid of light...how reliable is Halse's version when he didn't have a light?
And lastly..
Whoever wrote the message on the wall in small "schoolboy like " handwriting, in chalk, would likely need a light to enable him to see what he was writing..no?


Phil

[Joshua Rogan]

Jerry and Fish,
Yes, I have tried it and it isn't a problem for me to write the entire message at that height - I'm 5' 10", still several inches taller than the average Victorian male.
It is surprising how small the writing is, my trial comfortably fits on an A4 sheet (landscape for 3 lines, portrait for 5). Which also means it would easily fit on the 'jamb' (sorry Wickerman). Which would make it vulnerable to being rubbed off by the shoulders or elbows of people entering and leaving the doorway.

[PaulB]

How do you know the writer was on their haunches? I thought the bricks were painted black up to about 4 feet, making the ideal surface for a white chalk message to be displayed on. So starting at the top of this would be about chest height, which seems a reasonable height for a standing person to write at, no?

If the black dado came up to four feet from the ground and the writing was spaced over 5 bricks, it is probable that the writer would have had to bend over to write, or, alternatively, have written on his haunches. The height of the writer would no doubt having a bearing on the matter.

[PaulB]

You have a point, Phil. It would not havé been easily legible from some yards away. I think Warren´s fear was primarily that people would say "Hey, what´s that? What does it say?", and then they would walk up to it.

Precisely. But wherever it was located, it had to be visible from the street and, perhaps more importantly, any covering could have been easily removed by anyone walking by.

[Joshua Rogan]

Not really, no - when people write on a wall, they tend to write above shoulder height. Writing in chest height is quite awkward. Have you tried it? Otherwise, give it a few minutes and see!

Personally, I would naturally have written a little higher on a blank wall (and quite a bit bigger if I wanted it to be seen) but the black paint of the 'dado' would probably give the best surface for legibility and contrast, and wouldn't need any bending for your average 5'6" Victorian.

[Phil Carter]

Personally, I would naturally have written a little higher on a blank wall (and quite a bit bigger if I wanted it to be seen) but the black paint of the 'dado' would probably give the best surface for legibility and contrast, and wouldn't need any bending for your average 5'6" Victorian.

Hello Joshua,

If the above is accepted, do you accept that in order to see what was being written, in 3/4" chalk writing, in legible "schoolboy hand", a light would be needed? (Halse had problems seeing it in the dark when copying it down)

Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul,

I hardly think the cops would have covered up the message with a sheet of paper held in place by strips of Doctor Horace Day’s adhesive bandage and just left it there to be easily removed by passers-by.

Surely there would have been burly policemen standing either side of the covered message until the photographer arrived.

Trust you're well.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Surely there would have been burly policemen standing either side of the covered message until the photographer arrived.

So tell us, Simon, what happens when photographer arrives to photograph the uncovered message while the residents of the dwelling are leaving the building to go to work?

[Phil Carter]

So tell us, Simon, what happens when photographer arrives to photograph the uncovered message while the residents of the dwelling are leaving the building to go to work?

Hello David

I think i have seen it said that there was another exit possibility from that building? I could be misremembering.


Phil

[David Orsam]

We know from hundreds of books and reports of that era,how,despite the gas lighting,the streets were devoid of good lighting.So apparently,no moonlight,no starlight,bad lighting,yet Long would have seen a dark cloth,on a dark floor,in a dark passage,in about the couple of seconds it took to pass a doorway..
Had it been there.And before anyone says he w ould have seen with his lantern,they have to show the lantern was on.

Tell you what, Harry, why don't we ask PC Long if his lantern was on?

"He noticed the piece of apron first, and then the words on the wall. One corner of the apron was wet with blood. His light was on at the time." (Evidence of Long at the inquest as reported in the Times, 12 October 1888)

So there we are. His lantern WAS on. Problem solved.

[David Orsam]

If Halse had no light...did Long have one in order to see it?

Yes he did. See my post above.

[PaulB]

Hi Paul,

I hardly think the cops would have covered up the message with a sheet of paper held in place by strips of Doctor Horace Day’s adhesive bandage and just left it there to be easily removed by passers-by.

Surely there would have been burly policemen standing either side of the covered message until the photographer arrived.

Trust you're well.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon
I'm fine, thanks. I hope you and yours are all in fine fettle too. You would certainly have thought that the Metropolitan Police could have stationed a copper to prevent the covering from being pulled away. I also wonder why it was so urgent to erase the writing before it could be photographed (although Warren did say he expected market traders to arrive very soon and, of course, he was only acting according to the advice given by Supt. Arnold and wanted to take the responsibility for ordering the erasure, so maybe he was also influenced by his own needs).

[David Orsam]

I think i have seen it said that there was another exit possibility from that building? I could be misremembering.

Hi Phil, even if that's true, and Warren was aware of it, how could the police prevent the residents, wondering what was going on, from walking round to the front of the building to view the graffiti while it was being photographed?

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

The chalked message was erased.

A photographer had no need to arrive, so your question is gratuitous.

Regards,

Simon