Pc Long and the piece of rag.

[Phil Carter]

Yes he did. See my post above.

So Long had a light.

He obviously didn't have it on when Halse wrote down his version of the writing. See Simon quoting Halse.

So what logical thing does that tell you
A) of Warren's statement
B) of Halses's statement in reference to Warren's and all other versions from other policemen?

Without a light..it seems impossible for Warren's statement to be true.
It raises huge question marks as to the reliability of Halse's version vis a vis 6 other versions of the writing taken down st the same time.


Phil

[David Orsam]

The chalked message was erased.

A photographer had no need to arrive, so your question is gratuitous.

Are you seriously telling me, Simon, that you didn't understand my post?

It was a response to your suggestion that two "burly policeman" would "surely" have been standing by the side of the covered up message until the photographer arrived. My post was saying that this would have been pointless because it would have had to have been uncovered when the photographer arrived and thus visible to all and sundry. Did you really not understand that?

[Joshua Rogan]

Hello Joshua,

If the above is accepted, do you accept that in order to see what was being written, in 3/4" chalk writing, in legible "schoolboy hand", a light would be needed? (Halse had problems seeing it in the dark when copying it down)

Phil

Good question. Without knowing the lighting conditions in Goulston Street that night, my instinct would be to say that it would be a lot harder to read the message in the dark than to write it.
To check, I have just written the message again with my eyes entirely closed, and it's not that much worse than my earlier attempt.
So, based on that basic trial, I would say that a light would not necessarily be required. But if the writer had had one handy, we probably wouldn't be debating that second word 128 years later.

[David Orsam]

He obviously didn't have it on when Halse wrote down his version of the writing. See Simon quoting Halse.

What a strange thing to say Phil. Halse said nothing about Long's lamp, he only said he did not have one.

Long wasn't in Goulston Street while Halse was there - he (Long) had by then gone to Leman Street - so of course Long didn't have his lamp on at that time.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Joshua,

Well surely the lighting conditions in the street don't enter into it IF Halse had trouble seeing the words when he copied it down..As the very same lighting conditions would have applied at all times.
"It was dark..I had no light" - Halse


Phil

[David Orsam]

So what logical thing does that tell you
A) of Warren's statement
B) of Halses's statement in reference to Warren's and all other versions from other policemen?

Without a light..it seems impossible for Warren's statement to be true.
It raises huge question marks as to the reliability of Halse's version vis a vis 6 other versions of the writing taken down st the same time.

Logically it tells me absolutely nothing about Warren's statement Phil. You appreciate, don't you, that Warren didn't arrive at Goulston Street until after 5am when, according to the Commissioner, "it was just getting light"?

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

I understood your question perfectly.

But a photographer did not arrive. The scenario you describe did not happen.

So your question remains gratuitous.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

I understood your question perfectly.

But a photographer did not arrive. The scenario you describe did not happen.

Well of course it didn't and nor did two burly officers cover up the writing on the wall "until the photographer arrived".

So I can't think what you are getting at when you call my question "gratuitous" unless you are being deliberately obtuse.

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

"Well of course it didn't and nor did two burly officers cover up the writing on the wall 'until the photographer arrived'."

So why ask the question?

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

"Well of course it didn't and nor did two burly officers cover up the writing on the wall 'until the photographer arrived'."

So why ask the question?

To highlight the weakness of what you were saying. Wasn't it obvious?

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

To you, obviously.

To myself and everyone else, not so much.

Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

What a strange thing to say Phil. Halse said nothing about Long's lamp, he only said he did not have one.

Long wasn't in Goulston Street while Halse was there - he (Long) had by then gone to Leman Street - so of course Long didn't have his lamp on at that time.

David,

Do please explain to the whole forum how Halse knew the EXACT location if the apron piece and who did tell him where to go ?

"I then went with Detective Hunt to Leman St Police Station. I and Detective Hunt went to Goulston street and the spot was pointed out where the apron was found. I saw some chalk writing on the black facia of the wall." - Halse.

Trouble is. Long did not go to Leman Street police station.
He went to Commercial Road Police Station.

"The words that were written on the wall -I copied the words into my report. I could not say if they were recently written. "
- Long.

That quotes Long. WITH a lamp.
Halse..without one. . Opined the writing being recent.


Phil

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

To you, obviously.

To myself and everyone else, not so much.

I very much doubt you can speak for "everyone else", Simon.

Here's what happened:

You created a hypothetical scenario and I asked you a question about the hypothetical scenario that you had created. A question that everyone else will note you were wholly unable to answer.

[David Orsam]

Do please explain to the whole forum how Halse knew the EXACT location if the apron piece and who did tell him where to go ?

"I then went with Detective Hunt to Leman St Police Station. I and Detective Hunt went to Goulston street and the spot was pointed out where the apron was found. I saw some chalk writing on the black facia of the wall." - Halse.

The answer to your baffling question is contained in the quotation you have reproduced. The spot where the apron was found was pointed out to him.

Trouble is. Long did not go to Leman Street police station.

I think you will find he did Phil, if you consult his report of 6 November 1888:

"The inspector at once proceeded to Goulston Street and inspected the writing. From there we proceeded to Leman St, and the apron was handed by the Inspector to a gentlemen whom I have since learnt is Dr Phillips".

[David Orsam]

"The words that were written on the wall -I copied the words into my report. I could not say if they were recently written. "
- Long.

That quotes Long. WITH a lamp.
Halse..without one. . Opined the writing being recent.

It's great that you now appreciate that Long had a lamp.

As for Halse's speculation about that writing being recent, that was no more than a theory of his based on the writing not being smudged.