New Article on the Swanson Marginalia in Ripperologist 128

[robhouse]

Hello Simon,

Then also, why was a man IN secret work, Littlechild (Special Branch) NOT knowing about Kosminsky? Surely if he was , and Kosminski WAS a main super-secret-suspect..he would have mentioned it in the Littlechild letter? As in main suspect for comparison....


best wishes

Phil

For one thing, I get the impression from reading Clutterbuck's thesis on Special Branch, that the methods they used were also used by the regular detectives at Scotland Yard, who were investigating domestic crime. (i.e. monitoring the press, using informants, manipulating the prtess etc).

Secondly, the Ripper case was not Special Branch's jurisdiction. Special Branch was focused primarily on threats to domestic security from terrorist activity... primarily Irish Fenian terrorism, and to a lesser extent, Anarchists. There is no reason they would have worked on the Ripper case.

Tumblety presumably was known to Special Branch because he supposedly had connections with Irish Fenians, or something like that.

RH

[Phil H]

Phil C - I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

I am simply thinking aloud and seeking other views. I am not trying to push a particular view.

Phil H

[Phil Carter]

For one thing, I get the impression from reading Clutterbuck's thesis on Special Branch, that the methods they used were also used by the regular detectives at Scotland Yard, who were investigating domestic crime. (i.e. monitoring the press, using informants, manipulating the prtess etc).

Secondly, the Ripper case was not Special Branch's jurisdiction. Special Branch was focused primarily on threats to domestic security from terrorist activity... primarily Irish Fenian terrorism, and to a lesser extent, Anarchists. There is no reason they would have worked on the Ripper case.

Tumblety presumably was known to Special Branch because he supposedly had connections with Irish Fenians, or something like that.

RH

Hello Rob,

Special Branch were involved in the Ripper work. We know that from the little we have from the ledgers. Whether also connected through Fenianism, that sounds logical.

Clutterbucks work does give that impression, I agree. but only ONE man..Swanson? JTR work on a need to know basis? Under the type of pressure they were working under?... I personally cannot see it.

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Phil C - I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

I am simply thinking aloud and seeking other views. I am not trying to push a particular view.

Phil H

Hello Phil H,

No problem, I can see the hypothesis well.

It's the Eddowes/Kelly/Irish thing that interests me mostly, but I must admit, especially after having read the recent discoveries re the Kosminski family and Berner Street, that it strengthens my view that IF Anderson was referring to any murderer of any crime...then his Polish Jew had a Berner Street connection. Again, just my thoughts.

best wishes

Phil

[Bridewell]

City PC

Hello Paul. Thanks.

"There is no reason to suppose that "Kosminski" was known to, let alone suspected, significantly before the the identification, otherwise he'd presumably have been identified then."

Hard to disagree here. But I'm a bit curious about the city PC story. I go through them one by one, but none fit.

Did Watkins or Harvey come back later with, "Sorry, but I've been holding out"?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

And I thought I was the only one! Harvey dismissed 1st July 1889 - reason unknown? Unlikely perhaps, but not impossible.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Bridewell]

Well I'm hypothesising that Anderson and Swanson had been engaging on their own "secret work" - why would that involve Littlechild? Just an idea I'm playing with. I am not saying they used Special Branch.

Why indeed? Special Branch is obsessively secretive and divulges information strictly on a 'need-to-know' basis. Two can play at that game!

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

The ones who sacked those who were sacked, got sacked.

Hello Colin. Thanks. But if Harvey spoke up after the fact, why sack him?

Cheers.
LC

[Jonathan H]

To Simon Wood

I agree.

Macnaghten is a primary source about Aaron Kosminski, if the latter only came to police attention after he joined the Force in June 1889 -- and that is what the extant seems to show though not the Swanson Marginalia.

With his hands-on approach I think Mac went to Colney Hatch and looked at the records and saw 'self-abuse' and that Aaron had threatened a female relation with a knife. Knowing of Anderson's 'conservative' views on masturbation and that the Ripper must be being shielded by his own people, he created 'Kosminski' sectioned [relatively] soon after the Kelly horror by a family 'suspecting the worst'.

When he handed 'Aberconway' to Griffiths in 1898, Macnaghten did not qualify the document by telling him that the Polish Jewish suspect was deceased (whereas he did add information about 'Dr Druitt' for Sims) and so he knew all along that Swanson and Anderson were believing something he knew not to be true.

Macnaghten was misleading his colleagues -- his superior who he loathed and who loathed him.

What is the effective counter-argument to what is in front of us ...

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jonathan,

In his memoirs Macnaghten was canny in stressing that he did not join the Metropolitan Police until June 1889, but as we can place him in London from at least 1887, with his future appointment in the balance, it's impossible not to believe that during this intervening period he and James Monro, two old muckers from Bengal, enjoyed the occasional post-prandial tête-à-tête.

My bet with you is still on. It's a US dollar to a dead dingo's donger that Macnaghten knew far more about the Whitechapel murders than he was ever willing to let on.

Regards,

Simon

[Jonathan H]

I agree -- of course.

Does that mean we both win because we are both, eh, on the same side?

In his memoir he lies again about why he did not join the Force in late 1888.

He claims quite falsely that he had to turn it down due to personal circumstances, which became more favourable within six months.

I have always been intrigued by this weird and silly and hilarious source.

The one from Reynolds's Weekly Newspaper May 15, 1921:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=7614

That this might have been Mac's last Ripper prank, as he upends his being blocked from joining the Force and instead is asked by Warren to hunt the fiend as a private citizen -- and finding him!

Probably it is just a tabloid hack making it all up, but would they know about Mac wanting to be on the Force and not getting on board because of internal politics?

It also flies in the face of the memoir in claiming that the Ripper was a 'religious enthusiast'.

It's theme is the same: that I, Macnaghten, (not Anderson, or any other police officer) identified the Ripper matching "laying the Ghost ..."

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jonathan,

We're both on the same side, but for very different reasons.

The Reynolds newspaper article is an over-ripe bunch of old bananas.

Macnaghten was in London throughout the Whitechapel murders.

We can also place him in London in June 1883.

Regards,

Simon

[Jonathan H]

Fair enough, mate, but I ask who's over-ripe bunch of old bananas?

You're probably right -- the newspaper made it all up from whole cloth.

It's just that it has glaringly bizarre errors in it, almost as if it is 'substantial truth in fictitious form'?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jonathan,

Or perhaps the newspaper reported its story in all good faith.

Regards,

Simon

[Jonathan H]

What ... you mean actually interviewed the dying Macnaghten, as it claims?

[robhouse]

Special Branch were involved in the Ripper work. We know that from the little we have from the ledgers. Whether also connected through Fenianism, that sounds logical.

Hi Phil,

I do not think that is correct. The Special Branch collected "tips" and information from informants. Much of what appears in the SB registers is information gathered from various citizens, landlords, etc and told to Police Constables, then passed on to Special Branch if it falls under their jurisdiction. Hence, when Jack the Ripper's name appears in the register, I think it is more because the information collected has something to do (broadly speaking) with threats to domestic security, Fenians, etc. Given the amount of information they gathered, it is in no way surprising that "Jack the Ripper" showed up a few times.

For example "Landlord fears her lodger is a fenian sympathiser and also may be involved in Jack the Ripper murders." Information like this would have ended up in the Special Branch register. It does not mean that Special Branch was actively involved in the Ripper murders inquiry... presumably if they had collected information that was relevant to the Ripper murders, it would have been passed back to Swanson et al.

RH