The Donald Sutherland Swanson collection

[PaulB]

C4,
Advances in what? That's the whole point. Sure, if there was some new or improved tests that could be done, I'm sure they would have been given every consideration. But what would they be?

There have been two examinations of the handwriting, most recently by Dr Davies, and both state the handwriting is Swanson's. The marginal and endpaper notes are in a book of 1910, so the paper is obviously authentic, and they are in pencil, so there is nothing to test there. The provenance is impeccable and there is absolutely no reason to question the integrity of the family.

The marginalia didn't just come along and get accepted by everybody. It was investigated as best it could be. All the suspicions were aired. All the questions were asked. And the authenticity of the marginalia is not in doubt by anyone - except by Trevor, who hasn't in fact indicated what tests he'd like to have done that haven't already been done; it's impossible to escape the conclusion that he's simply tilting at Ripperological windmills.

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil,

Some answers from Nevill Swanson:

1) are there any 'Ripper related' items amonst the papers, letters, books etc apart from the annotated TLSOMOL?

Not to my knowledge.

2) Will the collection be split into various 'lots' or sold as a whole?

Will take advice and decide on basis of any offers that may come in.

3) Is/Are there (a) set price(s) or will there be an auction type sale?

Not decided.

4) A somewhat obvious question perhaps, my apologies if so, but can the items be viewed for perusal pre sale? (via private email, on request, for example?)

Yes in principle.


Best wishes
Adam

Hello Adam,

Many thanks to both you and Mr. Swanson for the prompt responses. I look forward to the detailed lists, and the undecided points being forthcoming. Any opportunity for any eventual consideration will be made at that time.

Best wishes

Phil

[Jenni Shelden]

HI,
I know Robert McLaughlin once mentioned the idea of a Ripper research centre. This is the exact type of thing that would 'belong' in such a place. Personally i think it was a great idea of Robert's even more now.

Jenni

[curious4]

C4,
Advances in what? That's the whole point. Sure, if there was some new or improved tests that could be done, I'm sure they would have been given every consideration. But what would they be?

There have been two examinations of the handwriting, most recently by Dr Davies, and both state the handwriting is Swanson's. The marginal and endpaper notes are in a book of 1910, so the paper is obviously authentic, and they are in pencil, so there is nothing to test there. The provenance is impeccable and there is absolutely no reason to question the integrity of the family.

The marginalia didn't just come along and get accepted by everybody. It was investigated as best it could be. All the suspicions were aired. All the questions were asked. And the authenticity of the marginalia is not in doubt by anyone - except by Trevor, who hasn't in fact indicated what tests he'd like to have done that haven't already been done; it's impossible to escape the conclusion that he's simply tilting at Ripperological windmills.

Paul,

I do seem to have upset you. I was not referring to the marginalia in particular. My point was that it is never a good idea to accept what one has been told without thoroughly satisfying oneself that what you have been told is based on solid facts. We should not get very far if no "proven facts" were ever questioned.

C4

[PaulB]

You are absolutely correct that we should question the source materials. Questioning the sources is the lifeblood of historical research! Trevor, though, was referring to the authenticity of the marginalia and specifically to tests being done on it, which he believes will prove it isn't authentic. That such tests were necessary was what you appeared to be agreeing with, not the wider, more philosophical context, so, no, you haven't upset me at all. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

[Trevor Marriott]

C4,
Advances in what? That's the whole point. Sure, if there was some new or improved tests that could be done, I'm sure they would have been given every consideration. But what would they be?

There have been two examinations of the handwriting, most recently by Dr Davies, and both state the handwriting is Swanson's. The marginal and endpaper notes are in a book of 1910, so the paper is obviously authentic, and they are in pencil, so there is nothing to test there. The provenance is impeccable and there is absolutely no reason to question the integrity of the family.

The above statement is not correct the experts did not state that, their findings were not conclusive.

The marginalia didn't just come along and get accepted by everybody. It was investigated as best it could be. All the suspicions were aired. All the questions were asked. And the authenticity of the marginalia is not in doubt by anyone - except by Trevor, who hasn't in fact indicated what tests he'd like to have done that haven't already been done; it's impossible to escape the conclusion that he's simply tilting at Ripperological windmills.

I can assure you that I am not the only one who doubts the authenticity of the marginalia either in part or in totality.

[Admin]

There are numerous threads already on the forums regarding the authenticity of the marginalia. If you wish to debate it, continue those arguments on one of those threads and do not disrupt this one with off-topic posts.

Thank you.

[Bridewell]

Hi Adam,

I think most of us are interested in this and I, for one, would like to thank the Swanson family for their courtesy in giving us advance notice of the proposed sale. I suspect that the annotated copy of Anderson's book will be well outside my available means. I hope that all the items find a good home.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Time begins to unravel all things.

I just had a trawl through Campbell M. Gold's PDF files, in which he states "there is no evidence that [Donald] Sutherland [Swanson] was a freemason." http://campbellmgold.com/cmg1_1024_123.htm

I have no reason to doubt Mr. Gold, yet amongst the recently-announced up-for-sale Donald Sutherland Swanson collection are "his Freemasonic jewels and regalia."

Some years ago I was told on what I accept as good authority [but alas with no corroborating evidence] that Swanson was in the same masonic lodge as Frederick George Abberline and John McCarthy.

Royal conspiracies aside, perhaps now with the help of the Swanson family we could get to the bottom of what is potentially a most interesting relationship.

Regards,

Simon

[AdamNeilWood]

Hi Simon,

If you wait until my article is published you'll have two choices of what to believe:

1) The writings of Mr Gold, who on the front page of his 'Officials Involved' document states "This material was co0mpiled from various unconfirmed sources".

Or

2) Your own eyes.

Best wishes
Adam

[Simon Wood]

Hi Adam,

I await your article in Rip 128 with bated breath.

It will be good to finally confirm or refute my source.

Regards,

Simon

[AdamNeilWood]

Donald Swanson masonic memorablia

Hi Simon,

Article finished and due for publication on Wednesday, but as the masonic regalia doesn't feature I have the permission of the Swanson family to post here.

The information below is taken from Donald Swanson's certificates; I'm not a mason myself so apologies if I have any of the phrasing wrong!

Grand Lodge of Scotland
DSS entered an apprentice 21 September 1885

Lodge St Peter's Thurso 284
DSS advanced a Mark Master 12 August 1886

Ubique Lodge London 411
DSS admitted 13 October 1890
DSS subscribed 18 May 1892


Best wishes
Adam

[robhouse]

Hi Adam,

I await your article in Rip 128 with bated breath.

It will be good to finally confirm or refute my source.

Regards,

Simon

Your source who claims what exactly?

RH

[Simon Wood]

Hi Rob,

Via a source, I have been given reason to believe there is a connection between Abberline and another important player in the Whitechapel mystery.

The upcoming article in Rip 128 may help to either confirm or refute my source.

That's all.

Regards,

Simon

[AdamNeilWood]

Swanson Collection website

A website detailing the items offered for sale in the Collection can be viewed here:

https://www.donaldsutherlandswanson.co.uk

Best wishes
Adam