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  • Sims/Macnaghten Letter

    Elsewhere in this illustrious cornucopia of facts, fantasies and fables there was mention of a letter from Macnaghten to Sims which was part of a collection of various crime related stuff. I believe it was the Borowitz collection (but I may be wrong). I have searched for it but it seems to have vanished. Does anyone know of its whereabouts or can point me to a copy -please?
    They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care; They pursued it with forks and hope;
    They threatened its life with a railway-share; They charmed it with smiles and soap.

  • #2
    Hi, PhiltheBear,

    Hope this helps.

    11. 2. '07.

    Dear Sims,

    Yet another "light" in dark, & not generally known, metropolitan spots has flashed across my mind: --

    Eyre Street Hill -- Clerkenwell -- where there is a large colony of Italians who are mostly ice-cream vendors by day, &, not infrequently, stabbers & shootists by night.

    It may also save you the trouble of research if I give you the times & places of Jack the Ripper's pleasantries.

    (1) 31st Aug. '88. Mary Ann Nichols. Found at Bucks Row with her throat cut & slight mutilation of stomach.

    (2) 8th Sept. '88. Annie Chapman found in a back yard at Hanbury St., throat cut & bad mutilation as to stomach & private parts.

    [page 2]

    (3) 30th Sept. '88. Elizabeth Stride, throat cut only (no mutilations) in Berners St. near Anarchist Club.

    (4) 30th Sept. '88. Catherine Eddowes, found in Mitre Square, throat cut, bad mutilation of face, stomach & private parts.

    (5) 9th Novr '88. Mary Jeanette Kelly, found in a room in Miller's Court, Dorset St. with throat cut, and the whole face & body fiendishly mutilated.

    Don't forget "Dowt" which her name is Devereux, & don't trouble to reply to this.

    Yours always

    M.L. Macnaghten

    Regards,

    Simon
    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

    Comment


    • #3
      The letter is in the Borowitz crime collection at Kent State. Here is a transcript:

      11. 2. 07.
      Dear Sims,
      Yet another "light" in dark, not generally known, metropolitan spots has flashed across my mind: ― Eyre Street Hill – Clerkenwell – where there is a large colony of Italians who are mostly ice-cream vendors by day, &, not infrequently, stabbers & shootists by night.
      It may also save you the trouble of research if I give you the times & places of Jack ye Ripper's pleasantries.

      (1) 31st Aug. '88. Mary Ann Nichols, found at Bucks Row with her throat cut & slight mutilation of stomach.

      (2) 8th Sepr. '88. Annie Chapman found in a back yard at Hanbury St., throat cut & bad mutilation as to stomach & private parts.

      (3) 30th Sepr. '88. Elizabeth Stride, throat cut only (no mutilations) in Berners St. near Anarchist Club.

      (4) 30th Sepr '88. Catherine Eddowes, found in Mitre Square, throat cut, bad mutilation of face, stomach & private parts.

      (5) 9th Novr '88. Mary Jeanette Kelly, found in room in Miller's Court, Dorset St. with throat cut, and the whole face & body fiendishly mutilated.

      Don't forget "Dowt" - which her name is Devereux - & don't trouble to reply to this. Yours always
      M. L. Macnaghten

      There seems to be some confusion over the date of this letter as the last number in the year, as written by Macnaghten, could read as either a one or a seven. However, 1907 seems to be the correct year since Sims used information from this letter in an article in September of 1907.

      Wolf.



      Comment


      • #4
        I knew that took me way too long to write out. Simon has beat me to the punch.

        Wolf.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Wolf,

          Sorry to have pipped you at the post.

          Hope you're well and keeping the virus at bay.

          Here's the actual letter -

          Click image for larger version

Name:	sims 1 [MACNAGHTEN LETTER].jpg
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ID:	739631
          Click image for larger version

Name:	sims 2 [MACNAGHTEN LETTER].jpg
Views:	532
Size:	152.9 KB
ID:	739633

          Regards,

          Simon




          Attached Files
          Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

          Comment


          • #6
            Can anyone explain please what the "Dowt" "Devereux" reference alludes to? (Sorry to be a pain if this is common knowledge but it's a mystery to me).
            "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

            Comment


            • #7
              Im noticing that Im not the only person who calls the International Club an Anarchist Club....which is so very relevant to what is said by those members about the Stride discovery and subsequent actions taken.
              Michael Richards

              Comment


              • #8
                Click image for larger version

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                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DJA View Post
                  Click image for larger version  Name:	hoppy.jpg Views:	0 Size:	73.3 KB ID:	745579
                  Dave's Meds have just kicked in...
                  Thems the Vagaries.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Click image for larger version

Name:	Statler and Waldorf.jpg
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ID:	745583 Al and Abby
                    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DJA View Post
                      Click image for larger version

Name:	Statler and Waldorf.jpg
Views:	207
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ID:	745583 Al and Abby
                      I've always seen myself as a more "Oscar the Grouch" type character. Pop up, make a smart arse remark and get back in my bin.
                      Thems the Vagaries.....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And that's pertinent to the Sims/McNaghten letter because...er....
                        Thems the Vagaries.....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Um,forgot.

                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DJA View Post
                            Um,forgot.
                            Me too Dave. I reckon we can blag our way out of this. Try this...

                            Ahem!, Well, the er Sims letter was obviously an apochiphal statement based on wild speculation, formulated around pre conceived stereotypes of those involved at the time, which, in a modern (ie, not modern, but dated, but relative) context, is aptly punctuated by the reference to them old guys from 'The Muppets'.

                            If you can't see that, I'm not responsible for explaining it.

                            ( I reckon we're safe Dave. That's the kind of bullshit no one is brave enough to question)
                            Thems the Vagaries.....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Nah!

                              Do you want a Hopalong Cassidy badge,or a chest to pin it on?
                              My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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